April 5, 2022

Episode 79 - Positioning Your Brand for Legacy

Today’s episode is 100% a business blueprint.

Be sure to tune in as your hosts discuss what’s poppin’ with Will Smith and Chris Rock in a way that only Nicky and Moose can. Get the business and branding layout from Biggs of Roc-A-Fella and the businessman himself, E-40. 

They’ll also be discussing respecting and expanding the brand with the entrepreneur and CEO of Sovereign Brands, Brett Berish.

You may want to take notes on this one so, grab your pen and paper or favorite device and plug into the conversation.

 

What You Will Learn:

  • What happens when you create a power brand.
  • The importance of positioning the next person to take over and lead.
  • The need for balancing caring and nurturing with positioning a team member for success.
  • Using the power of the internet and social media vs. attempting to make it the traditional route.
  • The importance of you respecting your brand.
  • The power of “no”.
  • Building respect for your brand.
  • How to expand the brand.

 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Nicky Saunders  
whats poppin whats poppin whats poppin Welcome to Nicky and moose. I'm Nicky that’s moose, what’s up moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  
What up y'all

Nicky Saunders  
and welcome to episode 79. And on this episode we are going to be talking about the leadership of Rockefeller, E 40 and direct to consumer talk. Lux Bellaire and talking about new products and how they made it through compared to every other print and wine situation. And then yeah, we were gonna talk about this slap Okay, we're gonna talk about this. But in a different way. I don't think we ever come in that normal way. Moose, how do we feel about this episode?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I think this is big business and brand talk like this is the truest we can be to what this podcast is about. So yeah, this one's gonna be good.

Nicky Saunders  
Let's get into this intro.

Jaymie Jordan  
Two kids from Queens. Cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand new I'm talking about Nicky and moose, bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force, but more importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know and love the most.

Nicky Saunders  
And I had to bring something back real quick. You know what time it is the review of the week. And this one says my new favorite show this podcast hits, all on all topics I care about including marketing, entertainment and the culture. Always good gems and inspiration. Nothing but good vibes. Shout out to Denzel. And for anybody who is interested, please leave a review on Apple podcasts and podcast chasers. Shout out to all our audio listeners and our viewers. Wherever you're watching this. We appreciate you. And we love you moose. How are we feeling today? How are we feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Feeling good? Feeling good. I'm excited as the you know, started Ramadan for me. So we're recording this on day two. So now I feel good, man. I'm excited for the season. This is like usually one of my favorite times of the year so I'm feeling pretty good.

Nicky Saunders  
He's looking he's looking good over there. Normally we be scared. If it's around like six, seven o'clock. I forget. Shout out to my mom. My mom was like, Oh my God, is he okay? Is he sick? No, he's just fasting. Oh my god. I could tell

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, we struggling that one time last year. I think it was on the live show where she texts you like yo, what's up with him? Listen, your mom's we was getting hit.

Nicky Saunders  
But that's that's why from now on we being considerate of the times that I was even saying yo do we got to change the time for the live show. Want to make sure that you're eating like three meals already. Like

Mostafa Ghonim  
it's good, it's good. I mean, the only time we really like it's gonna be cutting closest towards the end of the month where cuz you know, like as we get closer to the summer, the days get longer or the the sun the sun is out longer. So our fasting time will increase about an hour but that's like literally towards the end of the month. So even then I'll still be able to eat like 10 minutes before we go on live. And then you know the podcast we can always work around that so

Nicky Saunders  
A little bit more flexible. I guess a little bit more flexible but yeah, all right. I just got it. I had to make sure most was good. Um, listen, if you don't have friends that like I was bad at the first year. I was like, let's go and he's Yeah, I gotta eat like during it I don't care like yeah

Mostafa Ghonim  
he was just hearing like chewing background like what in the world is going on in there

Nicky Saunders  
But hey, it is what it is. Let's get into this episode cuz I got I got a lot to talk about. You got a lot to talk about. And of course we got we got to, we got to talk about this. Yeah, yeah. So here's the thing, right? Um, you've probably heard about everything in the world. About this Will Smith and Chris Rock situation, and we're not going to talk about it in the way that you've heard it. It's pretty much been like a week, since this has happened. And we've seen so many different perspectives and different reactions to this whole thing, everything from, like the Oscars to how they're reacting to it to, you know, Chris rocks and and Will Smith's peers and family and everything. I'm more like, this has had such a lasting impact. And people don't really know what to do, because of how big these two brands are. Like, it's nothing if it was something regular, not saying regular, but if it was somebody else, I don't know if it would be talked about this long. I don't know. If because, you know, the the question of if this was anybody else, would they have been getting this treatment? Or would they have been gotten this treatment? Like, first off? I love the fact that there was support for both people. Right? Understanding Okay, y'all, y'all important? Let's put you to the side. Let's put you to this. Are you good? You're right, you you great. But from, you know, with everybody else of how they're reacting, and some people pulling out from certain deals, some people supporting like, Chris Rock sales, skyrocketed. It is right. So with with something so crazy that happened. There's always some pros and cons from a branding and business side that it took me a week to really analyze because I said even on on my stuff. I was like, I'm not talking about this. I'm definitely not talking about this not right now. Right, let everybody else talk about it. Let them be the TMZ 's of the world. I'm cool with that. I have to sit in analyze what's really happening? Like, how are they going to react the fact that they're not both of them are not super public with it. Will Smith created a an apology, um, Chris Rock still said he's processing. But like, almost both of them understanding your let's leave this alone, let this die out. And let's not together put fire on it. You know, um, but like I said, how other people and other corporations and everything are dealing with it? Because of how big they are? Like, it's, it's almost super confusing. It's like, we know, we need to do something like with the Oscars. We know we need to do something. But Will Smith is Will Smith. And Chris Rock is Chris Rock, like, how do you even go about this? Because if we say, like, if we do nothing, we're going to get criticized if we do something, it could really hurt in in big totality of things like Yeah. So first, I want to, I want to show that that's what happens when you create a power brand. Mm hmm. Like, when things go wrong, you confuse a lot of people of how they supposed to react. And that's that this good thing and a bad thing. But that's the power of both their brands. You know, and I would love to hear what you have to say about it. Because it's just like, it's mind boggling. Now, we still don't know what is going to happen.

Mostafa Ghonim  
For sure. For sure. I mean, I think the part of you're seeing the power of brand on full display. There is there's no better way to put it right, because you're seeing some of the biggest organizations in Hollywood or entertainment, afraid to make the wrong decision because of what these two people have represented. So I think that's a big indicator for us when we're building brand. It goes to show that a lot of the good that you pour into your career and your business and your company and your brand. It doesn't entirely go to waste right I'm sure at the Oscars roundtable right now as they're thinking about Hey, what do we do to Will Smith there thinking about? Well hold on a second, you know, he's been in this industry for over 30 years, you know, he's given us a lot of great moments, a lot of great memories, a lot of great art and entertainment. Right. And that's, that's, that's the power of brand. So I think that's why it's never bad, when you do certain things to push your brand forward to make it better to make it bigger. Because it does cover for some of the shortcomings. Now of course, we get it right, we're all human, we're all making mistakes, not we're going to we're all making mistakes. Me neki, all of us, your favorite people, they're making mistakes too. So it's, it's times like this that I believe will cover for you or your brand will cover for you when times like this happen. Now, on the flip side of it, I can't help but think about, of course, the business taking a hit. However, which way you spin it, even the indecision, the the fact that, you know, the Oscars, or some of these organizations don't want to make a decision doesn't mean that they're the personal business is not taking a hit. There's people who are probably like, even if we were considering them for something, let's stay away from that right now. Because, you know, it's probably not the best thing to do. Let's see how it is played out. So that's the unfortunate part. While the brand may cover your reputation, I do believe your pockets always take a hit when something like this happens.

Nicky Saunders  
Yep. Um, of course, and he is texting while while I did a podcast shout out to he. Um, what I will say is that I do I do wonder if then this is probably the last thing I do wonder if this is going to be, quote, unquote, their own version of red table talk, just like how they knew nipped everything in the bud about the August Alsina. situation. So our day later down the road, going to put their own version of that situation. That's my only thing. But because we we saw it clearly not to this Situ not not to this impact. But I mean, the day stayed quiet during the August Alsina situation. And they waited to put on their own platform of what what exactly happened. So clearly, there is a story to be said, from both parties. And I wonder if there is going to be something of that? Or are we going to go back to the Oprah vibes, because it's going to be talked about? That's, that's the thing I do know, there is going to be an exclusive interview somehow some way with one or the other parties, right? Are they going to be able to narrate it? Or are they going to get on somebody else's platform and speak on it? That's what I'm very curious about, I would love for them to narrate it like they did with the other one. I think that I think that's great. I'm always big on narrating your own story.

Mostafa Ghonim  
For sure, I think as men and they need to, like if that is the case, as men, they need to sit down together, you know, when and have that discussion together as opposed to each party. And then it just creates more gossip when every person is telling only one side of the story. Right. So like, that's the battle, the only personal thing that I'll put in there. If that is the case, I would like to see them sit down together. Because, of course, the only argument that I think made sense, or I can at least give some respect to was the whole concept around mental health with, you know, black men and some of the things that I was like, Okay, you can't shut that down. You can't just like sweep down under the rug like, oh, yeah, no, that's not valid. So I do got to give a lot of respect for that. But I think, yeah, I would like to see them talk it out.

Nicky Saunders  
You mean talk it out in in the public?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Like if they're gonna do the read table talk, and it's not just like will telling his side? You understand? I've just been through so much. It's like, okay, we do respect. Yeah, we understand that. But it's like, can there be a discussion to give an example to the millions of people who are watching you to have how two men can come together and, you know, maybe close a chapter or move forward in a better light or take responsibility or accountability for their actions. You know, like, I think that's a better thing, because at that point, you You also got to think it can't be just about them for the entirety of, you know that this this topic is in the public. Again, just my personal opinion, I'd like to see them at some point. Pay it forward in the sense of let's show a better example for how to bounce back from when something like this happens.

Nicky Saunders  
Somebody tell their camps, moose’s suggestion you feel me? Im just saying little things like that. But let's, let's get into let's get into the heart of the episode, we had to talk about that. I know people have been blowing up our DMS about it. But um, let's talk about Rockefeller. Let's talk about shout out to Moose, if you're watching the video, he has this really nice Chris plains hat now that is read that I'm really feeling that I just realized in the middle of this

Mostafa Ghonim  
that we're talking about Rockefeller with this hat on.

Nicky Saunders  
Right. Right. So, um, so moves past me a interview with Biggs, who was one of the three people that owned Rockefeller, and what the original reason for it, I had to switch it because there is something that doesn't really get talked about a lot when it comes to Rockefeller, and it is the birth of so many different entrepreneurs. And that mainly everybody that came from Rockefeller, whether you were on the street team, or whether you were one of the artists have successfully done something, right. And so what was that culture about? What kind of leadership was brought about? So we got a clip.

Biggs  
In the beginning, we definitely wanted to birth entrepreneurs, right? By setting fire to that path and leading the way at the time, we were trying to think about how to make the artists coming up bosses, so they can have their own record companies and music labels and an own staff because at that time, we knew we were transitioning out the young men and women, they was able to feel more relaxed, and then feel comfortable getting into a role of leadership themselves. And we also gave a lot of, you know, leeway for these young women and men to do their own things and have their own ideas. So everybody that worked for us, is either a vice president or president at a different record label music company is just crazy to me. I'm just happy for everybody, you know, even the street team, you know, I'm looking at now they have real estate companies and things like that.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man, yeah, I've been on these big interviews heavy, the last two or three weeks just because I felt for me, it's important to study the history, but also just really understand the mentality behind how did they build one of the best brands technically right, in hip hop and music. But I love what he's saying here. Because and this is just a my personal study, especially over the last couple of months, I've I've been paying attention to what people say about legacy, and generational wealth. And while there's a lot of enthusiasm around that topic, there isn't as much enthusiasm around succession planning. So succession planning is what's known to be especially in corporate America, or business leaders, they all know about that the mark of every great career is you prepare the next person to take over your role successfully. You don't just sit there and say, Oh, I'm at the top, I'm winning. I'm creaming I'm killing the game. I'm just gonna soak it all up. At some point you need to start thinking about okay, how can I position the next person even if that may maybe dim the light on my stardom a little bit because I'm now putting someone else in position to come and take over my spot. But when the true wind for say the company or the brand, when that when that when is truly the best interest of everyone, you start thinking about more than just yourself. So my favorite part about this clip here is you know, how he saw you like, the idea was to always put other people in position to learn how to lead and how to win. So it's, it's a mark like, I think it's it's definitely one of those things that should allow us to think to ourselves as business people, you know, who am I putting in position? Who am I preparing? Who am I taking along with me? To learn a lot One of the things that I've learned that took me years, right, because I do believe that that's a, that's the beautiful thing about legacy, you're able to teach your family, whether they be family members or non family members, but you're able to teach them a lot of what you took years to acquire in a short amount of time, so that they can avoid making the mistakes that you've made. And more importantly, I believe, it's for the betterment of the brand, the company or the business, now you got young talent, that are taking over the rain, you got younger people who are going to extend the lifeline of your brand or your business, because at some point, you might get higher, you might get bored, you might not have the same edge. But when you put someone younger in there, got better ideas, and more, they're more in tune with what is what is more relevant, what's more popular, how can I infuse that with something that we've always done? And I know there's some concern about like, all things always take a dip when you know, the next generation takes over. It's not entirely true. Right? Like if the, if you train them, right, I don't think that that's the case, they're able to protect the legacy, but also bring about some innovation that can take it to a new level.

Nicky Saunders  
I look at it, that that's extremely good. First off, because that doesn't happen to me, you feel me? but it's gonna make doing this for me, I know, Mafia, get it right. Um, no, but what I, I don't know, if people caught on to it in the middle of it. Um, Rockefeller was always had always plan to sell, right? They looked at the whole, like, rappers pretty much have like a four or five year lifespan, let's take advantage of this situation, let's create something amazing. And then let's sell it. Now. You would know more about this, but from what I heard, the the point of building a business is to sell it. Right? A lot of people tend to do that. Now. There's some that is like, am I for life, or I'm gonna keep this for the rest of my life, then get presented with a really nice fat check. And they like, I don't know if I'm a lifer. Just do different life. No, I thought of this business, I could do this again. Right? Um, so understanding that, if business is are created meant to so why isn't that mindset of making sure that the people are good, and they are not only being able to take over the next position and the next position, but in order to take over the next position for their life? If they already know, this right here may not last for multiple reasons, whether you outgrew the position, or whether this business is about to be under complete new management, or completely bought out like yeah, I, I questioned that. But then as understanding for leadership training, looking within and be like, Okay, what can I learn from this? You know, what can I how can I set up the guys a little bit better? In order, because even me and I haven't really thought of, we're just starting, so I can't think of selling, and we're just starting, right? But then there are that mindset of you need to think at the end in mind, right? So how can we set up, you know, these people for better success, right, and not just saying, Oh, you're exposed to this, or you have these opportunities, and these doors are open and things like that, which is all great and very big and fluffy. Words, that is extremely big and fluffy words. But what Rockefeller did was legit, like, this is like how they did with Cam, right? Camera, and for those people who don't know is a rapper from Harlem created a whole movement with Dipset for those who don't know, right, hence why New York was wearing pink for a very long time as because of them. So when cam came to to Rockefeller, he was positioned as a high exec as well as having, you know, their own record label for for Dipset. Why? Because cam came at the later years, and they already knew what time it was. So let's make sure if you do come here that you are set up perfectly for when this transitions, and there's no setbacks or anything like that, like you knew, you know, how you have to move, you almost have to move a little bit independent in order to do this. And now my question thinking about that is because we've, we've covered here, as well as just certain other companies as well is like, we do stuff for you. But sometimes we want you to do it yourself. And is that a tactic of we want you to grow on your own kind of situation. Like I'm thinking about it now that this is kind of brought up and I'm like, Oh, are you doing that tactic? Like, let me like, like that parent that's like, Okay, you're crying? I'm not going to pick you up each and every single solitary time. Mm hmm.

Mostafa Ghonim  
I mean, is two different frame of thought, in my opinion. I don't think that's that's the thing, right? Because it's one thing to say, I don't want you to give? I don't think so. I don't think so. Because because you know why, like, and Biggs talks about it. In some of his interviews, he talks about how Jay didn't want to get on a, he didn't want to take a picture with any of their artists, because he wouldn't do a feature with any other artists, because he didn't want them to blow up because he was on there. That's a different story. You don't say so it's like, okay, I'll help you. I'll make sure you don't fail. But I'm not going to be the only reason why you succeed. That's the difference. You know, I'm saying that's the difference, because that means you need me to stay alive. But But, but if I teach you how to do it on your own, and I'm just kind of like guiding you from from behind. That's, that's, that's a different move. So I don't think that it's a bad thing. But the fact that you just say Nah, I'm not going to get involved at all you go when on your own. You give people the thought well, but maybe I should just go do it on my own all all together, then, you know, like, if I'm not getting anything real here, because it becomes difficult to ask to like when you're when you have that type of leadership. It's difficult to say, Okay, I think I need help. Should I ask? And I'm not gonna ask, you know, and it's like, you have that type of relationship, which is like it again, it puts that thought in people's heads. Yeah, and I might just go break off and do it on my own. 

Nicky Saunders  
Yep, This is a little too close to home. We're gonna get into this next 

Mostafa Ghonim  
Good topic, topic.

Nicky Saunders  
But no, and in, in all seriousness, people like, for those who are leading other people, right? You You may feel personal about this one, like, Yo, are they really grooming me for success, as all know, the same topic but a whole nother feeling? Right? It's really brought up from a leadership standpoint of, we have teams and though we look for loyal people to stay with us and things like that, at the same time, my are we and I don't like saying grooming because it sounds bad. But I don't I can't think of another word right now. Are we grooming them for success? Are can they hold their own without this particular platform, this particular company things like that? But with a challenge of not also feeling as if you don't care?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Exactly. That's, that's the balance. Yep. That's the balance. You don't want to be the reason why they win. But your absence shouldn't be the reason why they fail either. You know, that's that that's that balance to it.

Nicky Saunders  
Yes. Alright, let's get into this next topic. Um, I thought this was pretty cool. I wanted to bring this up. This was a personal one. Um, so. E 40 For those who don't know, is a Bay Area. Legend. Okay. Been in the game for over 30 years right. has launched first black owned ice cream. Okay, let's this air horn said that, um it's called a goon with the spoon, which is a brand he already had, that he was selling sausages and burritos already directly consumer. So you can go to the website and get these different types of sausages. And actually the burritos are actually sold out because of how well they're doing. And because of the demand that they're on certain retails but this is not E 40s first business, let's say, right, he's done multiple things that some are public, some are not. He's a silent partner for some, he is the man first others, right. And one of those that he is the man about his, he's in the wine and sprint business as well. And shout out to earn your leisure. They brought him on to talk about the business of the wine and sprint situation. And what was funny, before I get into the clip, we always have this conversation of do we name the brand, our name or not? Right? So real quick, random side note, but he named his wine, his name, because he didn't want to call it E 40. Right. And because his real name sound is significant enough to be a wine, he called it his. So his name is actually the wine, which will be great for legacy for his, for his family. So side note on that, but, uh, how he sold his wine is the interesting part in what we wanted to talk about, which is direct to consumer, let's talk about it.

E 40  
For two consumers like the best day right now, like, you know, you cut now, the liaison, it's like, it's beautiful, you know, and you know, it's good to have your stuff in retail stores and all this fine. That's that's better to buy straight. I mean, you could know all the hard costs, all this stuff, you know, when you go straight to consumer, so did it online, and it just starts flying, like flying, flying flying to the point where the demand got so big, all retailers was asking, how do we get it? How do we get it, thanks to the power of social media, you know, thanks to the power of social media has those requests coming in from all my fans all over the place?

Nicky Saunders  
So I love this, because this shows, first off, we already know about the power of the internet, we already know for for most those people who are in business and those people who are brands understand, like the importance of the connection to our audience into our consumers and clients and everything right to be able to get with them directly is so important. Now, from a product side, or an idea why service wise to go straight to the audience and see their reaction. Instead of putting it as in his case in retails and hope and pray that they're putting it on the shelves hope and pray that they promoted hoping like directing to consumer is just a lot more control. A lot more work, but a lot more control. Right. So from a basic standpoint, if we want to sell something, let's say let's say Nicky moose wanted to do merch, let's just say that right? We heard you. We got you out people, but let's just say, right. So from a bare minimum, we would have to have a website to talk about it like Shopify, right? We would get the product, we will put it on Shopify, and we would say it on the podcast and we will put it out on social media. Merch is available because there is already an audience base. People who hear that because we're talking straight to them, they will go to the website and buy. Now, that is a huge power because that wasn't necessarily the situation. Back in the days. You would have to wait for other platforms you would have to wait for retail stores. Right. And what E 40. Did was let me show you that this works to the retail stores not even going to them. First, let me show you that it works to where the retail stores are now asking him, Hello, how can I get this in our spot because we're trying to go on online. First off, it's sold out. Second, every single time we go there, so that we need this on our stores. So we can make some type of profit now, people don't really talk about all the fees, all the percentages and everything like that, when you have to add a third party. This is why so many of the entrepreneurs and the brands that we talk about here are so big on cutting out the middleman. Because we don't want to give the store this amount of percent. Like we don't want to do a restocking situation we don't want to do you know, whatever other taxes that may come through, when it comes to having another like having a retail store, or, you know, having a third party that's involved that distributes our stuff. We already have to deal with a maybe small to medium size overhead just producing. And now you're going to have a larger overhead because you're getting other people involved. So yes, from a grand scheme of themes. Of course, when you have a product or service, well pretty much a product. You look at like oh, how do I get into the Walmarts? How do I get into the let's say the Home Depot's? How do I get into the ABCs? Since it's wines bring in, like how do I get into all these different things, because it's grand because you know the traffic is there but there is prices for traffic, there are fees for traffic that we're not really putting under consideration when maybe if we were to do a little bit more the legwork we can get rid of those fees and have more money in our pocket. Especially in the beginning. Like the beginning we want to try to save as much money as we can. So then when those different opportunities do come it's fine cuz you know what, at this point is a profit. Right? It this point is just it's huge profit and everybody's happy this then the third like I in the best part is where unless you get a cold swap of money where it is you'd still do your direct to consumer as well as retail you can do both. Now like I said, unless you get into whole walk of money that has to make sense for you. We're not We're not financial experts with what percentage should work but yeah, I mean I think we we need to put a little bit more respect on direct to consumer

Mostafa Ghonim  
do you cover that Hello good anything that was awesome that's do oh no does business kill that that's what's up. Yeah, you killed that. That's what's up for sure. I literally have nothing else to say I'm the marketing the profit. The develop. I'm like, Oh, she got a piece of it. That's what's up now. You got it all. I love it.

Nicky Saunders  
All right. Well. I'm transitioning into still talking about direct to consumer another amazing brand that does this very well. Is Lux BelAir. Right. And in particular, Brett bearish, right, we may seize like this little small dude with gray hair. You may have seen him with Rick Ross because, you know, Bellaire and Rick Ross is just what we've covered here. But Brett has done ace of spades, which we've talked about, which is Jay Z's line, and he's done bumbu and he's done a whole bunch of other things that I didn't even know about. He didn't do say and for all my people who drink we don't, but I am aware of these products, right? Um, for those people who who drink, understanding the importance of the Du’ssé an ace of spades and BelAir and a bumbu and he is behind all of them and to get pieces of how this has worked from the demand that it had, it had because of certain moves And him saying no to certain things is very interesting. And so we got a clip, we have two clips about this. But the first one is respecting your brand.

Brett Bearish  
It's a phenomenal brand that is in 75 plus countries. And what's great about that is everything I do is based on, I'm not forcing the brand anywhere, I didn't push it into 75 countries, 75 countries contacted us wanting the brand. That to me is the power of a brand. When someone's looking for it, they want it, they're ready for it. This brand, when I introduce it to our distributors in my industry said this will never work, Brett, it'll never work, you put it in a black bottle, you can't do that you can see the liquid, you're launching Rosae. First, you can't do that you're gonna launch a brute, which is the traditional champagne work at that price point. 10 years earlier, I would have changed everything. No, I'm not changing anything. I got to trust my instincts and trust my gut, all my brands, whether it was ace of spades, whether it was to say whether it's these brands, no one thought they'd work certain things like back then, such as trusting your instincts, or listening to your gut or saying no back, then I just give it away. And once I started, no, I'm not gonna do that, I'm not gonna do that anymore. You got to respect the brand and respect what you're getting. 

Mostafa Ghonim  
That’s dope, that’s dope. I like the that line of respect the brand, you know, is like that, that's biggest, like, if I just cater into the basics, or what is expected in a particular industry, then there's nothing that makes me any different than what you expect to get. Alright, so it's like that idea of respect the brand. I like that mentality. And there's a part of it, I think, for every creator, where when you're first getting started, me personally, I'm learning more to respect and actually surround yourself with startup entrepreneurs. Because here's the difference. Those guys and gals, they don't have the level of success that gives them the confidence and arrogance to say, Oh, I know I'm a winner I already won. When you're, when you're when you're just starting from scratch, there's a level of faith, there's a level of creativity. There's like a wrongness that comes with that, because you got to be a little bit more scrappy, to get to the top or to fight your way through. Right. So I love that. Okay, let me not buy into what's expected in a particular industry or code. Because yeah, while I wallow, while I want to follow what people are suggesting, I don't want to lose my edge. I don't want to lose my creativity. So I like that respect the brain. That's it. That's a good bar.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. And there, there's a few things that I got out of this one, it was the, the power of No, that's where the respected brand is like. When you have a new idea, or when you are establishing a brand, like and you're seeking, some people seek for approval, right? Like, and, of course, if you're going into an already established industry, there are going to be people that are going to say no, this is not going to work, this is not going to work. This is not going to work. Right. And you have to he said he was like if this was a few years ago, absolutely. I would have changed everything right. He had a brand. Before I think it was called like number three, right? He had a different liquor. And so many people told him to change it. And he didn't respect his idea and his gut, that he changed a lot of things, but he was like, Look, in the process, I learned how to distribute to the US, I learned the importance of how the bottle looks and the importance of influencers and things like that, like he was speaking about the lessons that he learned in the heat put towards, like the brands that he has now. And it is we're going to get a lot of nose, you know, and the nose is what crafts our brand is what makes it stronger. To where when you say in a I forgot who he was talking about, but there was a no he didn't mention it. He was saying there was this actor that wanted a subspace when he had ace of spades. It was like a past me a few bottles of vases basically like ah way production is right now it's limited. I hear you. It was a very powerful actor. I hear you, but give me give me some of the bottles? And he said, No. And a few months later, the man started spending over like, half a mil, on ace of spades. Right? And when you follow your gut, and you just say no. And that's just like this an example of saying no, but when you have your brand new hearing all these different feedback, and you are just sticking to your gut, it actually builds respect for the brand. It actually is like, let me see if this is going to work. There's been, I think about it like boxing, there's some fighters I don't care for. Right? Because of how they go. I like yo, you're, for example, Logan, Paul, the Paul brothers, right? You almost watch them to see if is going if it's going to fail. But as they continue to win, you almost gain respect with like, Yo, Okay, I gotta, I gotta respect how you do things. Right? Yeah. So the, the more you hear how you should change things, or how you're supposed to do things, and you don't listen to them, people are still gonna watch you and actually gained respect for creating your own lane, and hence why his brand has gotten to so many different countries and has become one of the top selling of their kind. So it's like, we we worry too much about disappointing other people, we worry about the feedback. And should I change it and should I not. But we're creating something based off how we how our gut is and how we should move about it, we're creating a whole different lane that people are going to watch regardless if they want to or not, and are going to respect it down the line. I love Floyd Mayweather, for that same situation. So many people watched him to see if he was going to fail, because he wasn't a typical boxer, he didn't follow the typical storyline. And so when we look at this, um, it goes more than just products. It goes towards branding, it goes towards business goals towards a lot of things, because you're going to hear feedback from a lot of things. We are influenced by the industry that we're in, hence why we're in the industry. And so we sometimes give too much credit to them, to where they actually molded us to being just like them when we are not them. Were something else were our own unique story.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Hmm, I like that. I like that. That's real. Yeah, you watch them so much that you although you kind of like dislike them at first, you start to become a fan after a while. It's like oh, man in Florida is kind of nice. Yeah. Well, I'm lucky Floyd fan. Now.

Nicky Saunders  
It's funny, because it's true. Because if you think about it with, with, um, with his company, it's like, no, you are not supposed to put it in a black bottle. No, you're supposed to come out with this liquor first and not necessarily that one. No, you're supposed to. So you look, these people are probably looking, let's see is going to fail is going to fail. And since it didn't, they're like, oh, okay, we got to your numbers. Say in this is where it stops being from opinions. And it goes from facts. Because now numbers equal up the success stats equal up. What is really how it's really supposed to be besides what your opinion is. Yeah. But the last thing we want to talk about is when we do think about new products and new services, I like this topic just because from an extreme execution side, we've had these conversations of should we bring up something new? This is the product. So like, do we create something outside of it like so many things of this conversation happen and and then as you have a brand, you're going to want to think of how do we expand and you may have something that already works, but now do I make a new product do I make this so Brett said this about new products.

Brett Bearish  
I wanted to do new brands, I want to develop new products. I think I always say this new products in any industry. And but let's be specific towers is the lifeblood of an industry. You know, it creates excitement to create new users to a category. To me, it's inspiring. It's the hardest part to do it. Because you're developing something from scratch, you're not taking a legacy brand and trying to do something.

Nicky Saunders  
I just want to know what moose has to say about this.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man, that's so real, but I mean, and you've noticed me I've been using even when we were in the metaverse and talking with the meadowsweet group, like we talked about the word innovation for a minute, right? Because I'm starting to realize myself that although which, as, as the guy mentioned their bread, right, like, it's one of the hardest things to do, it is impossible to stay relevant for an extended period of time. And by an extended period of time, I mean, 5,10, 20 years, it's impossible to stay relevant off of the one singular product that got the market's attention for you. And, and just continuing to run different spin offs off off of that, I'm not saying you need to get to a point where you need to retire, the thing that you're known for, but you've got to add some complementing services or products that go along with it. Right, there's always something that people need or use, with whatever it is you bring to the marketplace. Right? It's like peanut butter and jelly, you know, it's like coffee and milk, like there's something that they need that they do with it. So I think if we can start training our minds to think about, okay, okay, I'm seeing a lot of success with this brand. And if I have the infrastructure in place, that I won't maybe lose a step if I add something new. But what can I do that will complement this, maybe I could sell it as a bundle, or, or bring it together to be one thing instead of they, they get this from me, but they go to somebody else to get something else, I already have their trust? And what do we know about consumers in general, if they purchase from you once, they're more likely to purchase from you again, very few people are going to have a great experience buying from someone, and then just for the heck of it going somewhere else to try the same exact thing. Like it almost rarely happens. So it's one of those things that I think is so important, because yeah, it's difficult. It definitely puts you back in that, that new startup mode again, and you're having to, you know, try something new and okay, what's working? And man? What if I, what if it doesn't work, and I lose the kind of success label next to my name. And I already had a working brand or product. But But that's, that's why you got to be in the game. I think when you start thinking long term, you recognize that you got to add more pieces to that puzzle.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. And it is a scary thought. Because you have like, you have the foundation. This is what works, right? And it's like, I think of it like random example of like Mitchell Innes. Were dope for the jerseys, right? I don't know about the hats. Right? You feel me? Like I don't know about anything else. But I know for sure. For the, for the jerseys, they're dope, however, you got to think of it like, we already we have the golden child, this is never going to fail. We could try new things that still align with it, what are some of the things that are going to be a true extension of what our golden child is? And if it works, great, if it doesn't, we still have the golden child. Like it's not going, we may have to double down. And I've stated this on on the podcast before, maybe double down and making it more global. Maybe making it more into other countries in and cultures and things like that. Maybe we have to do that if this fails, right if this doesn't hit certain marks, but it's nothing wrong with trying something new. Because it continues to make you top of mind. Right? And I Oh, okay, there's a certain I would say names and I'm gonna be very careful. Very careful. Um, but like I think of certain certain personal brands When I'm thinking about this, and I'm thinking about their one product, and how they will do ads and everything like that, and it's working for that amount, and then evergreen that joint over and over and over again. And so from a certain standpoint, to new people, is great. But sometimes new products are great for those people who already been in the system, who are there, like core following, right core clientele. And so you have to continue to put out something new, maybe not every single week or anything like that. But you want to continue to put something new, in order to keep them in the system and keep them happy. They don't want to go nowhere, you they feel connected to you in some way, shape, or form, they continue to take their credit card out for you. Right, they continue to show up. And so new products are not don't necessarily have to be so scary because you're trying to create things in order to cater to your existing clientele. But if you have that if you're that one trick pony kind of vibes that's gonna die out after a while. Yeah,

Mostafa Ghonim  
yeah. Yeah, there's so much that is not in your control. When there's only that one thing for you. And and we've said it before on one of our episodes, one is too close to none. And, and it should anything happen. And we're seeing it in in today's world, that anything is happening regularly. Like the stuff that we're like, are you in are worried about that, that stuff happening, it seemed like every other week, there's some craziness that we would have never thought would happen, is happening and wiping some people out, or at least bringing about some level of turbulence to be like, oh, shoot, you know, hang on tight. And let's hope we get through this thing because it's about to get ugly. So it's definitely one of those things that we got to try. And again, I, I probably say this, like every other week, you introduce a very cool way of testing new, without seeming desperate, or without, you know, feeling like you don't know what you're doing. It's like, No, you don't have to go all in all the way. So for somebody listening, like, Oh, does that mean, I need to take my whole savings and dump it into a new product? No, you can, you can, you know, ask what your people are looking for what else? What else do they use, in addition to the products or services that you offer? How can you maybe test it out with a small rollout, low teasers sample and see what people are saying, and then you keep scaling, to get a better way of doing that. So I always give you credit for that, because I know that you're always when it comes to social media, especially, you're always testing new types of content or new pieces, and you're trying to see what catches on. And that's the same thing as in a big way. I mean, social media is your product, you know, like it's, it's a it's a digital product. But that's that's kind of the way that it works. So it's like I wish more people would take onto that, like, hey, let's test this out with a smaller audience, maybe to just the people who've purchased from us in the last 30 days. Let's see if they would get it. But what about the people in the last 90 days or six months and you can start working some ways around that. And and you'll see if, if, if this is something that you should really implement long term or not.

Nicky Saunders  
These are facts. First and foremost, go check out the after show. Okay, we're gonna be talking about a key to success when it comes to this social media game, and building your brand. We're going to talk about it on the after show. We save the clip, so go check that out. I'm second. Follow us everywhere. We just hit 8000 subscribers on YouTube. So that's because of y'all. We appreciate y'all. So follow us everywhere Nicky and moose, um, everywhere pretty much whatever platform that you're on. Um, but moose final words.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, just a spin off of what the gentleman Brett said. You know, be careful getting around people who are quick to share their opinion, but they want no responsibility when their advice doesn't work.