Episode 93 - How To Prepare Your Brand For A Recession

Nicky Saunders  
whats poppin whats poppin whats poppin. Welcome to Nicky and Moose. Im Nicky, that's Moose. What's up Moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  
What up y'all?

Nicky Saunders  
And welcome to episode 93. And on this episode we're gonna be talking about where does your ideas go? Are we truly hitting a recession what we can do as brands and businesses, and going from opportunity to getting paid what you're really worth? And more? Moose How are we feeling about this episode?

Mostafa Ghonim  
No, this is good. I like this. We're gonna mix in the business knowledge to hopefully help creators avoid what is appearing to be a scary time with this recession. So yeah, let's let's get to it.

Nicky Saunders  
Let's get into this intro.

Jaymie Jordan  
Two kids from Queens, cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand. Yeah, I'm talking about Nicky and Moose, bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force, more importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know and love the most.

Nicky Saunders  
And shout out to everybody who is listening through the audio experience was watching through the video experience. And we appreciate all the reviews, and the comments that you always leave shout out to y'all. And then of course, this episode is powered by Ecamm live, the number one all in one live streaming platform that allows us as Nicky and Moose to create this podcast from an audio standpoint and a video standpoint. So everything that you see is done by Ecamm live. So if you want to try that out for 14 days for free on us go to www.NickyandMoose.com/ecamm You feel me? and moose. How are we feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man is doing pretty good. It's been a good week I had a lot that was on my to do list that I finally knocked out on Thursday, which I was like, Ah, man, I think it was been like weighing on me for like at least the almost two weeks. So now I'm super blessed measure even work two brothers and sisters around who are celebrating. I mean, this would technically be after the holiday somewhat when you listen to this. But the time that we're recording it, it is eat so shout out to everyone who is celebrating the festive holiday for our Muslim people. So yeah

Nicky Saunders  
Shout out to holidays, I'm always for the holidays.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Always Yeah

Nicky Saunders  
I had one of the most frustrating days ever creating content this past Friday, where for those who follow me on Instagram. I do just content therapy situation. And I felt like upping upping the look of it and feel of it. And everything went wrong. Everything from audio to focus to the exporting to it just everything went wrong. Just Instagram not working just so we started at like three or four and it wasn't ever posted until like midnight. So

Mostafa Ghonim  
Wow.

Nicky Saunders  
But the thing was, through the frustration, I created content over it taught my community about it, showed it on stories and got a bunch of DMS on some look, I love how transparent you are because you could have stopped and you still posted to joint and people seem to be liking it. So I'm I'm gonna do it again. Hopefully it won't be that treacherous next time. Recording by yourself with new ideas in your head is always a tricky situation. I just want to put that out there. So it's a tricky situation.

Mostafa Ghonim  
I don't know for sure. And you're doing multicam like you're doing multi cameras on that one, right. It's like,

Nicky Saunders  
oh, it's one camera

Mostafa Ghonim  
Oh, it is okay. No, but im saying like it's to me, it feels like you have two characters there we go. Yeah,

Nicky Saunders  
Two characters, two different angles. It's like a little scripted out. Yeah.

Mostafa Ghonim  
I love it though. I think it's good. I'm glad you push though.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, me too, I guess

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, about that part. But yeah, we’re here.

Nicky Saunders  
But let's get into this episode. So yeah, no I gotta do something that inspired me real quick and shout out to the FAQ podcast because they interviewed DJ Jazzy Jeff. And he says, some so fire off of this concept of ideas that he learned. Is this not his original one, but that he learned. And I wanted to talk about it for a little bit. So check this out.

Dj Jazzy Jeff  
What is the richest nation and what is the richest land in the world? Still wealthiest land piece of land in the world. And everybody, Dubai, Abu Dhabi. And he still he looked at everybody, and he said the graveyard. Damn. And he said, because that's where most people take their ideas. I walked out.

Nicky Saunders  
So, okay, so, I mean, let me start this one off. I almost walked out when he said, the whole walkout, I'm not going to like turn it almost did that. Because in and not in a bad way. But like, as creators, we sometimes hold on to ideas for like special timing. Right. So in his example, he was saying, yo, some music producers like hold on to their best ideas, hoping that it would be for a specific person, like, Yo, I'm holding this for NAS, I'm holding this for Jay Z, I'm holding this for Kendrick and never gets to them. So we never hear it. So um, I'm also thinking from, like, a entrepreneurs standpoint of, we hold on to like, Okay, here's the right season for this, or when I have this particular person for it, then we could do this or when and it's like, you want to create ideas, and bring them to life. This is why we're thinking of them. Right? It came into our head for a reason, not for it to get buried, not for it to get pushed aside. It's more on how can we create it right now? And how he said be left on empty. When it comes to our ideas. I'm like, okay, because I've been, I've been appreciating, you know, what, let's, let's space things out a little bit more this than a third. But, of course, there are certain things, we you know, there's always something that comes up. And sometimes we don't revisit ideas, and they do die. Like they're nowhere to be found. Right? So it's like, what are some things we could do to avoid that? Like granted? Write it down, go check over it on a seasonal basis. I, like I get that. But even that you're still pushing it to a certain season. You feel me like, so I'm, I'm now like, what do you what do you do? Do you like? Do you like minim? Not minimize, but like, do you slow down the ideas that are coming in, so you can give the proper attention to the ones that you have? And so they don't necessarily die? Because it never was birth just yet.

Mostafa Ghonim  
But in birth, you are taken directly?

Nicky Saunders  
You didn't come out of my body yet. So I don't know if that is an idea. Just yet? I don't know.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yes, it's interesting. And it's like, there's so many different ways you can look at it. Because from one standpoint, I can understand, or I can value the opinion of it has to make sense from a timing standpoint, and not so much the saving it for a person because it's like, that's, that's faith, right? You don't know if this person or individual or group that you're saving for is going to be supportive or into what you want them to be a part of. But from a flip side of it, I do think of it I think of ideas, even from a business standpoint, more a little bit of a linear fashion. And I'm always of the model of what are people going to be? What are people going to need next? And what are they ready for now. Because if I give you something that you're not ready for, or something that you no longer need, then it could be a good idea. But it's not going to necessarily make sense from a business standpoint. So of course, just as a business minded person, I think about it from both sides. Now, the concept of how to hold on to them. To some degree that's interesting. Like immediately what comes to mind is maybe delegate the parts of it that can be implemented or applied right now. And if it's something that you're super passionate about, have some portion of your energy dedicated to it so that it stays alive. But I would have to agree, or I don't know that I have the answer for it in terms of like, how to how to nurture all of the ideas that we come up with, so that they stay alive, that's gonna be, that's gonna be an interesting one.

Nicky Saunders  
Right? So, so people, if you have, it's more of a conversational basis thing, like you have some ideas, but I've found that, like, putting it, I understood that as putting an urgency to your ideas, that you're not, you never know what's going to happen. So why don't we stop holding on to them thinking that it's going to happen, when it possibly can’t , like, the same thing, where people are, like, you know, you only live once in a treat certain parts of their lives, you know, kind of like, I don't know what's going to happen the next day, you know, let's, let's live this to the fullest. Let's, you know, put these things a priority. So I'm, I'm thinking of that, like, as people who come up with ideas, that's like, that's a gift. Not everybody can come up with ideas, good ones and multiple ones. So it's like, what do we what do we do? Because I don't want my ideas to be in the graveyard.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Ideas to die. Yeah

Nicky Saunders  
I don't want my ideas to die with me. That sounds so sounds so negative thats just me, so guys, go in our comments, DM us, let us know your thoughts. You Know what i mean, let us know your thoughts. But this next part, I feel like we're gonna go real into this because we keep hearing this word, recession, recession, recession, are we going into a recession? Are we in a recession, recession, recession? And the great thing about saying that is is not like the other one, when we had the pandemic, where you'll get banned for saying the other word. Oh, and then Id, but you know, fill that in. So we were watching a, a YouTube from Sean kennel, shout out to him. And he was talking about how do like creators prepare for the recession? I'm like, Okay, well, how does personal brands and businesses get ready for the recession? Right, so he brought up a two interesting tweets that we're gonna go over, where one of them says companies will be spending less on activations and less on digital media. What does this mean? Plan less money from YouTube ads and expect Twitch new ad incentive program to take a hit to secure the bag while it's still offered? Also, less money from brand partnerships and activation. Supporters slash viewers will be going through the same rough situation, don't expect same tendencies of gifted subs, donations and regular subs. Also, don't be tone deaf bring up free ways. People can support watching you watching your content, engaging on social excetera. So I figured, why don't we come up with three ways that personal brands who are growing businesses can prepare for the recession? What do you think Moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, no, that's phenomenal. I love it.

Nicky Saunders  
You go first.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, as far as my first one, I always think that one of the things that will. And by the way, just as maybe like a fine print a disclaimer real quick. It's not a it's not a fear agenda. And be mindful of this. As you approach the word recession and you consume content and route news and information around it. There is some media sites that will try to use the word almost as a scare tactic. They want you to panic, they want you to feel fear, they want you to stress and have anxiety and not be able to think and really approach this in a in an intelligent way where you can come off on top or you can get through this situation on and on the other end of it be in a better situation than what you started. So be mindful of that although we're talking about the recession this is in no shape or form is, is used to scare you, but more so prepare you and even excel you right? Excel you forward beyond this or accelerate you. So when it comes to any times like this, and it shouldn't be really a seasonal thing, but even more so in a recession, you should always look to the people who are currently paying you and thinking about how can you better serve them, before they start considering about cutting their expenses. It's difficult to reach someone, when they've made the decision that they're going to scale back on their expenses, they're going to cut back on some services, they're going to just push some people out. And you happen to be one of the services that they deem to be an accessory. A nice to have, but not a need to have. So when you start making your calls and trying to build the relationship and Stitcher backup at the moment, you get the call saying hey, you know, thank you so much, you've been great. But we'll see you next season, we don't need you right now. It's a little uncomfortable, right, they've already made the decision. But if you're mindful of this, you should already be making calls, reaching out looking for ways to add a little bit more value or extend some additional services, whatever they may be, to make sure that the people who are currently paying you are satisfied with our service, almost reminding them of certain things that maybe they haven't been taken advantage of. There's a lot of times that clients or customers don't get the full value of what you could provide to them simply because they don't know how to use it, or they don't know that you offer it. And you'll be surprised that when you start engaging with people, especially if you're a service provider, will you start engaging with your customers and just listening to their problems a little bit more, you'll start to know that they have services that you can benefit from, that you didn't maybe even know they existed, you know, again, I told you I represent some some partners, and we have discussions with maybe people that are providing services to the business. And I'm always curious to talk to them and figure out how are we doing in maximizing every dollar that we're paying you? And it sounds like a funny question, but I'm really trying to be honest, like, are we doing a good job of utilizing the money that we're paying you utilizing your skill set and your resources? Is there something else that we can do better to make sure we're getting every dollar out of it. So I'm saying if I were a service provider, and I have clients, lambda service provided some extent, but I would I would do that first. Next, I would reach out to my customers, my clients, and I would start looking for ways to add more value to them before stuff hits the fan. And they're considering on cutting back, whatever the case may be, I no longer can be one of those people cut out the door because I was proactive and making sure I'm adding more value and making sure their needs are met, they're taken care of they're prepared for something like this, it's rare that they're going to want to cut you when you do that.

Nicky Saunders  
And that's so good. And that kind of leads to the whole conversation we have later. But no, um, ya know that that's so good. Because now you're almost making it to a point where it's, you become a need and not a want. And we're big on that. Like, yeah, how can like, I'm the last person you're gonna think of, when we're talking about cutting things down, just like hold on, this works perfectly or this, like this continues to go up. Or we have no problem because so and so is going above and beyond. And it's like and you kinda said this it, we shouldn't wait to a recession or a big situation where the economy can go down to even move that way we should move that way at all times. Because at any point in an economy going down to just more like nationwide worldwide, whatever a brand accompany can go down at any second, and they may have to make cuts today tomorrow, like like, it doesn't take something to happen to something happened to the economy for them to be like hold on, let's make some let's make some cuts. Right? And if we're not going above and beyond and just taking that extra step and there's nothing wrong with that and when we get into this conversation more deeper you'll understand kind of where we're going with this but it is so crucial in this time just to prepare on some. Okay, this is a good check. I get how many like this is Especially your good ones. Oh, this is a good check I get I'm never going to assume I'm safe.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Thats good.

Nicky Saunders  
I'm going to still ask yo, what's, uh, what's, what's the plan? What are we doing? Like with this situation? I have one where they have an event coming up, yo, whoever's in charge of it, let them talk to me. Because I want to make sure that this thing sells out. I don't have to. It's not part of my stuff. But especially if you believe in the brand that you're working with the clients or whatever, right? If, if you believe in it, and you want to continue to work with them, you see what else they have going on? Without necessarily asking. They're like, Oh, you paying attention? Oh, you support it? Oh, hold on, let's look out for this person. Because they're, they're proactive. And that's the big thing, like, staying proactive. Oh, man, I had this conversation with an individual who won't really hear this podcast, and maybe they will? I don't know. But, um, but it was more like, there's always a question on what is this person doing? What is this person doing? Right? And in response, the individual was like, Yo, I can't do things 24, like, in a 24 hour time period, I can't do it. Like, what more do they want from me. And I'm like, Just be proactive. You wait till they tell you what to do, or you go based off of here is the line items that we go through. I'm going to do this. And that's it. And I'm gonna wait till you actually tell me to do this. And that's it. Right? To where, especially in this season, people are looking at the those who are looking for looking with the best interest of the company, and who are thinking a step ahead, because the company in itself, is thinking of higher issues. And so if you could alleviate the thought process and distress of this particular part, regardless of how big or small your role is, within that client's whole scope of things, they would appreciate you a little bit more. They wouldn't question what you do. They wouldn't. Like, they wouldn't bring up like, oh, we want to give this person more money. Let's take away this because what have they been doing that? I never want? In my lifetime, to ever hear Yo, what does, What does Nicky do? And never want to hear that? What do you mean, what does Nicky do? Like? I'm highly documented with what I do. What are you talking about? Right? Like, I never want to hear that. I've never heard that sound good right? So it's important just like how Moose said to just go above and beyond now, my number two situation, which I thought Moose was gonna say first. So I'll say it as number two is like you have to diversify your money laying bought it. It's not just about your main service, or your main product, as like Yoda is bringing in the money. So from the tweet that we saw, you know, they were, it was geared towards like creators. So, you know, you think of YouTube, all the videos that you create, you may be getting money from AdSense, YouTube, AdSense, right? Or from Twitch, they have their whole thing or whatever, from Instagram, through reels, badges, Facebook, however you get paid from a media side of things, right for creators. Now, for personal brands, there's I mean, there's multiple ways of, of making money. Now, if you're selling a product, are people going to cut that down from buying that? Do you have a community, right? Are you doing events? Is that going to take a cut? You know, do you have coaching, consulting, right? There's, as a personal brand new you get to set up in several different ways. If you only have one or two setup You're in danger. Yeah. You're in extreme, like, Me and Me and Carl made a had a call and we were like, yup, It's merch time. Its merch time. It's time it's the community has been asking for it. It's merch time. Right? Once that's in place, it's going to be merch time for the podcast, you know. So it's like, boom, the consulting is on point. I'm already thinking, okay, the conversation of agency has come up, I've, I've narrowed it down to Content Agency, when it does come in place, because it makes the most sense at this moment. Can it grow into something bigger? Cool, maybe but for right now. It may it may be that, um, then, you know, just having multiple things, tapping into the influencers, all this stuff, right. You have to look at what you have and be realistic with, something's going to take a hit. Something is going to take it in dough. And I was oh, I forgot what it was. We posted something on Tik Tok of, of Steve Harvey. And he was talking about multiple streams of income from a past episode that we talked about. And somebody was like, why would you need if that one thing that you love is paying you? The most? Right? And as it always goes to? You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. You don't there's no way that is that makes sense. Like if you have one job. You're in danger.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
And that's scary. Because even for me, coming up from that world of like nine to five, and you know, you want to get the six figure job and so you're good bah, bah. I've seen and to be super transparent. I've seen like my father get laid off. Right? And scares of my mom losing her job to and having to maneuver that way. And it was a real situation that like, Oh, snap, like, you may be cushion. We may be living good at a certain point. And then granted, I never felt it as a kid. Shout out to my mom for making sure of that. But internally for her there was a little bit of a struggle. Yeah. Why? Because you you depended not her. But I mean, people depend on that one thing and don't have certain things in place. Regardless if it's a small side hustle. Regardless, if it is, it's something that you have intent to take over the world, whatever. As long as you understand your foundation, you can have multiple things with that foundation, check out to C, he always breaks it down with the whole tree trunk situation. You know, your foundation E’s Foundation was speaking, right? Then there was books, there's merchandise, there's events, there's programs, there's all this stuff that goes still under the foundation of speaking. Are you diversifying? If not, this is the time to do so. Because we have to prepare?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a great point. And I love I love that you pointed that one out, because anytime i i want to light a fire under my own butt to make sure that I'm still being mindful of that tip. I always just say, and you if you've been listening to this podcast for a while there on the live show, I'm sure you've heard me say it, but I'd say one is too close to none. But if you have one revenue stream or one source of getting paid, well, that one is too close to none. So if they leave, if they decide to go in a different direction, if they decide to maybe have you sit on the bench for a little bit while they get their stuff together, well, you're going to be left with none. So I am definitely in support of that. One of the things that I've heard and I thought it was a great kind of principle to use for building yourself up to these multiple streams without confusing your current consumer base or client base or audience. Even yourself really is that and I think especially in the online world, people with the idea of niche, they probably take it to extreme practice sometimes, where they don't understand that you can be niche down in a specific demographic, but not necessarily. Maybe cutting away opportunities from yourself at the same time, like, yes, you want to focus on one thing, but not to the point that you're eliminating or limiting certain opportunities from you. So I love this principle of, you can do multiple things at the same time. You just can't market them at the same time. Right? So I can do coaching, consulting, and maybe a live event. But it's recommended that you're not trying to market both of them simultaneously, with all efforts all because then of course, you're gonna confuse your audience. So for those of you who are wondering, well, how do I get that build up maybe multiple streams or, or diversify and not necessarily confused my audience, but just know that you can do multiple things at the same time, just don't try to actively market to both things. At the same time. For me, I go a little bit more extreme I try. I like to do online sources and offline sources that that's for me is the way that it, you know, it just makes sense. So if the world and the Internet Watch a crash for 48 hours, God forbid, knock on wood, you know, I'm saying like, you still got some offline stuff. And vice versa, if the offline stuff were to go down, well, you still have something that you can rely on online and put more energy there to keep things going. So yeah, definitely think about what that means for you. Whether that be picking up, you know, an extra gig on the side, like you mentioned, through a side hustle or something like that, or simply rolling out a different service, a different type of thing that you bring to the market, so that people can benefit and make use of during the recession or during this time.

Nicky Saunders  
That's good. I like it. What you get is the last one?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Last one man, last one, you cannot fly blind by this is this is so critical. And by not flying blind, I always say, get to know your numbers. You will be surprised that how in good times, most people are not really in tune with what's happening in their books. What does this cost them how much money they're making from this? It? It's not important, right? And I tell I tell Nicky this actually all the time I say, it's not that I'm driven by money. But numbers is a good way for me to keep score. I don't necessarily need to be making a gazillion dollars. Although if you're willing to pay me a gazillion I'll take it I'm just saying, but I don't need to be making it to say oh, yeah, like, there's no, I'm not saying that. But it's a good way for me to make sure that my efforts are contributing to winning the game. Like I'm, I'm succeeding at the game that I'm playing at the end of the day, I'm still a numbers guy, and I want it to make sense. So numbers is a great way for you to do it. But when you don't know your numbers, if you're not mindful of your profit margins, your average expenses on a month to month basis, or how much you're bringing in, you really don't know what you can afford to do intelligently and what you can't afford to do intelligently. For some of you, you might need to invest more, maybe maybe you have just sitting on too much cash, like they say, maybe save, I don't know, three, six, twelve months, depending on what is best for you. Maybe you're sitting on too much cash, and you need to figure out ways to better invest. If you don't know your numbers, you won't know that. For some of us, we actually might need to pull back and cut back and look for ways to minimize spending a little bit. So because maybe we're doing some unnecessary spending. Again, you will never know if you don't know your numbers. So I will say man, just just take a you know, couple of hours, do a nice little run through your statements and see, okay, like, maybe I'm spending way too much. Eating out, never, never go back to the meal prep life I need to start cooking at home. So I'm just saying that you you cannot continue to fly blind. Especially in a what you know people are saying could be a recession. It's always best to know your numbers so you can know what you can afford and can't afford to do.

Nicky Saunders  
I agree with that. I'm neither gonna go on that because you're a numbers person. Again, nothing on that but I do got a bonus one. I'm glad I do have one bonus one. Um, during or to prepare for this recession, I would say figure out a nurturing system for your audience. Right. As you saw in the tweet, kind of just like you know, figure out cool ways to to allow Allow your followers to still support you. But I'm going to say, find cool ways to still be in their lives. Right? Don't ask for nothing, that when we went through the pandemic, we saw a lot of brands do a lot of things for free. That's going to be the same situation now, where not maybe everything is for free. But this is the time where they're going to remember when they're there was a low time, who was just there for them, and who was there for self? So how can you still create maybe a free service free? I don't know. Course free, something that is clear that this is a seasonal thing, right? Because some people did extra live shows or created a podcast or whatever. Just for that, that pandemic season. And then when we were back outside, they went back to the regular schedule. So when this in this vibe, how are we preparing to still be present? In our audience lives in our clients lives? What are we doing that still adds value to them that we're not expecting them to do anything for, I want you to do anything, and I'll need your money, I just want to be able to still serve you in some way, shape or form. Because long term, that means more long term, they're going to be like when I have my dough back. I'm gonna spend it on them first. Because other people when I needed, it was still charging me a gwap of money. These people over here, just continue to add value. And they didn't have to. So and we remember, and this is going a little back and why they still have some kind of longevity. This is why versus did so well. Yeah. Versus was free. We watched it all. We were all in it felt like a club together. Right. Now, they've monetized and now they're selling tickets to different venues and things like that. But we remember what they did during the pandemic. So of course, I have no problem putting up some bread to be at a live event. Because I remembered all those times that I saw it for free. When I shouldn't have. That's good. So yeah, that bonus, figure out a nurturing system during this time period, and we don't know how long this quote unquote recession will happen. If it's already happening, how long is it going to be, but still have that these particular tips in place, because it's eventually going to happen the way that this is speaking, it's, it's going to happen in your audience, your client base is going to get hit some way, shape or form. So

Mostafa Ghonim  
Thats a good word

Nicky Saunders  
Good word, With that, let's give all shout out to one of our favorite people. Or at least one of my favorite people, but I'm going to assume Mooses too.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Its mutual 

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, favorite people in the world. Inky Johnson, he was currently on the pivot shout out to the pivot. And first off, y'all need to watch that because that was really good. That was an amazing interview. But from our standpoint, he said something that a little bit hit home for me so and so I had to hit him on the side about it. But I'm going from just wanting to be there having the opportunity to be in the building and to serve to finally getting what you're worth and finally putting a price tag to what you do is what he covered a little bit on the pivot. And we're going to talk about it.

Inky Johnson  
All them cats over there. I was like yeah, he was like all them getting paid more than you. I said okay. He was like and you better than all them. He's like, not only are you better than them, he was like you care more than them, they don't be out here on the road traveling and doing that to your family. I was like, I got it, respect. And if so, at that point, it changed everything in terms of business structure, turn to opportunity, in terms of preparation, you know, I view it I do a different

Nicky Saunders  
Now, Moose here's my question to you. Before we go into responses and everything. How many can you count in your head? How many opportunities that you look back and you're like, Man, I should have charged, man. I feel like looking back and being like, the people who were involved that we're getting paid. Yeah. are nowhere on my caliber, like nowhere. Like, I see you. I respect you. Right? However, Me?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
So, like in your head? How? How many is a handful? Is it like several hands? Is it your hands and feet? In your head?

Mostafa Ghonim  
You gotta borrow arms. What are you doing? Yeah, like, Well, what we do? Yeah, it's gotta be, it's gotta be a good amount, man. Because I noticed that there isn't a time where I've priced where, you know, someone really flinched, like, Whoa, no, absolutely not. You know, and every time you charge what you think your highest, you get people who are like, oh, and you're like, wait a minute. And Its like lowkey, you're like, wait, I just increased as I just listened. Like, what happened? Yeah, it’s happened quite a bit. And and it's, it's what I landed on was, speak to other people. Or you almost want to make friends with your competitors to figure out what is their pricing model? You know, and I think I saw this actually online where they were saying, female entrepreneurs, or female creators should collaborate together so that brands don't take advantage of them. I remember that one clip. So there was actually a situation that we were pricing for recently. And I called up Marsha was like, hey, Marsha. Quick question for you, man. I know, you work with these people. What's the situation like? Like, what are you thinking? Because I'm here trying to do that. He just kinda told me flat out like, Hey, I think you should go this way. I'm not necessarily involved on that side. But if they asked you, I think this is what it is. So to answer your first question, it's happened quite a quite a bit. I don't I don't, I'm not upset. I don't take it, you know, too personal. It just kind of shows that how much we undervalue ourselves, which is crazy. But the way I'm trying to offset it now was to be a little bit more strategic, and not just rush not price based on again, what people can afford, and or me trying to meet my, you know, dream home budget, it's none of that. But can I speak with people in the industry or those who I know are doing similar work at a high level, just to make sure that I'm within striking distance, and it's a competitive price. So if they are price shopping, they're at least going to see, okay, it's pretty much reasonable. That's an industry standard. And that's ultimately I think, what we should all be striving for.

Nicky Saunders  
Yes. And in the, in the interview, he was talking about, like, yeah, I was just happy to be in the building. Right. I was like, to say, that I could possibly get paid for speaking is like, I just want to be there like, now. At the end of that clip, he was like, Yo, I got my business structure. I got, you know, things had to change. And we've seen Ink, work with some of the best people we know there's a bag shout out to ink, we know there's a bag. Right? And I had to ask him on the side. Okay. You gave the the, the quick answer over here. Right? You gave the Okay. business structure team. What exactly did you do? Like, how do we actually raise our prices? How do we actually get paid what we're worth? And this is what he said,

Inky Johnson  
You know, I've looked at in terms of my pricing structure, my business structure, like what do I have to offer in terms of my knowledge base, the people that I'm serving, like, how can I increase it What I'm charging, and still make the customer feel as if they got an amazing deal. Right or great deal or, you know, I provided more value than they felt like they had to pay for. And so what I did was, I increased my interaction with the people that I'm coming to serve. And so what I mean by that is, if there's a company that I know, want me to speak, or come in and do a keynote, or do a session, and the reason I use company is because corporate is my number one source of business sports is true. And so what I would do is create as much interaction with them as possible. And so what I mean by interaction, whether it's calls, whether it's, Hey, man, I'm gonna be in town on this day, I would love to be able to get with you guys, you know, to sit down and do much, hey, are there any books that you guys are reading, right? That you can send my way, I will try to get as much information as possible. And knowing that, like, I'm going to really read it, I'm really going to study it, right? A couple of reasons I want to go in and I want to be sharp, and I want them to understand that I value what they do. But also, now I have enough content to be able to go in and add session. Right. And so what I mean by that is I can go in and do a keynote. Now I can go in and do two breakout sessions. Now I can go in and do a q&a and turn the q&a into a whole session. Now I can go in and get creative.

Nicky Saunders  
Good, so looks good. I immediately immediately hit him back was like, first off mind blowing. Because some of us will charge extra to spend time and to be on the phone for an extra meeting or two or whatever. And I'm always big on leverage and flipping what is happening and he's literally saying yell out gather all the information, I can read the books they give me have all the side conversations, because I need that insight or language to be able to present them with different breakout sessions, different meetups, whatever we want to create, I can get very creative with what I'm doing. Because I know the insider language, I know exactly what they need. I know exactly certain key words that other speakers have no idea about. I can say they can say the very generic stuff based off that that company's industry that you know that team sport, whatever, but I'm going in with certain a certain language that was only within that company's culture. Who do you think they're gonna go with? They're gonna go with the person that feels like an insider. And now I can raise my price because there's no other speaker doing that. There's no other speaker touching on these particular pain points, speaking the way they would, and all I have to do is have lunch, all I have to do is ask them how they are check on their family. What are they reading? What are they doing? What podcasts are they listening to? That's all I have to do. And I'm like, yo, the, the amount of being personal doesn't get talked about a lot. That's real. It doesn't like the human side of business. And not such a transactional vibe is so underrated. It's like such a cheat code. Like he's using it as a cheat code like me being human. Me creating relationships is going to get me further than just being a really good speaker. Like that works. That helps. Absolutely. It gets me like in the room. But it gets me a higher tax bracket. When I can be personable but when I could treat you like I've known you, I know exactly. Your come up I know exactly the things that you need in life. Based off why you're here. I'm like alright, let's be more personable because we come from the the The vibe of I'm coming here to do a job. I did my job. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's it. But he's like, Oh, no, there's work to be done before. And if they want to eat after, as long as you know, within a good timeframe, and I see the benefit of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I know that dinner could possibly bring two other more people with the same type of business, or different departments. And now I go from one spot, having one gig to three different gigs.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. I mean, and I don't know about, you know, most people how they interpreted the word, professionalism, or being a professional. But typically, it's putting a boundary around how personable you can be in a professional setting, typically, its understood that when I'm a professional, I don't talk about certain things. I mean, I get too personal with questions or things of that nature. And maybe what he is describing is not that right, I don't know that inky is asking about people's families. And, you know, he's not saying, Hey, I use that as my gateway to increasing my fees. He's really just showing you that I went the extra mile, where people of my status, people of my influence, well, renowned speakers who are already in demand, they don't have to do that. I'm still looking for ways to go the extra mile, you know, I've always shared that one of my philosophies is that if you stop doing what got you to your level of success, you'll eventually lose your success. And that's the part that a lot of people don't get. And they often fall into that trap. They think that Well, that's what I had to do when I was first starting up. But when I was first and come up, I don't have to do that anymore. Could be true. But if you really take that to heart and completely cut it out, or you don't do it in a different way, maybe because maybe, maybe you're the one, you're not the one who has to do it, maybe you can find a replacement, but what you did to get you to your success still needs to be done. Again, you don't have to be the one who's doing it. But you've got to find a way for that thing to, to continue to get done. Because it is in the DNA of What gave you that opportunity gave you that platform. So I like that where he's at, he's still finding ways to do it. Now here's a maybe like a secret little insider tip for those who are maybe in the public speaking realm and consulting or wherever it is, if you're a service provider, there's one word that you got to really make note of, and its relevancy by or call it relevant, you call it being an insider, which is great. At the end of the day, let's all be honest, much of the information that is shared is generic, right? You can ask anyone, give me three tips on how to be successful. And it doesn't matter if they've accumulated billions or pennies, for the most part, they can give you three tangible things that you should do to be successful. What makes it different, though, is when I can know enough about what's happening in your office, and your company, being in your specific situation, that I can tie in examples or solutions specific to that, that relevancy, that sniper, like precision or accuracy of how this can benefit your situation, is the difference between getting paid 5,000 10,000 10,000 50,000 That's literally it. It's, you have now enough experience, and you have a way of getting so intentional with your messaging or what you're doing that you can speak exactly to what someone's experiencing. So I think that's another thing that he acquires and being able to give me I love what he said that the tell me what books you're reading, like, how can I be better in tune with the culture by reading the same books? I was like, that's, that's brilliant. I really liked that icing on a cake. I might start asking people, what book you reading?

Nicky Saunders  
Let me get that real quick. Let me know it's like I said it's mind blowing. And we had, you know, side conversations about it on like, we just not and we have another clip from a like a service based situation that almost took the same kind of approach. But going going back on, like an earlier conversation from that individual about, just being proactive. This is an amazing way to be pro Active, like just saying, taking saying yes to a lunch saying yes to an extra call. Not. Okay. Yeah, just looking on my calendar. And you know, once you paid the invoice, I'll gladly get on the phone with you, you know, like, if the if there's already a potential of securing the service or if the service is already secured, right? Take an extra call. It's okay. Answer the text message with urgency. It's okay. Answer that email quickly. It's okay. But I think and I'll say it this way, like, you do that, because you're scared that the money won't continue. People who like those, what inky does are very secure. About, I know you're going to pay this, I know you're going to we're going to work together. I'm no doubt in my mind that once you see what I do, game over, you may be saying no, I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to go above and beyond. Because you're scared that the money will stop. So you might as well milk it out as much as you can, if you you want to do this, okay, that's an extra charge, that's an extra charge, that's an extra charge. But now that becomes an extra expense. And then when we are in this recession, and they look at what they spend money on, you're going to be the first one to be cut. Because you added extra expenses that shouldn't have been there. When all you had to do was what is the what is the big? What is the big picture? Securing this, securing this retainer securing this big gig securing this event? So whatever it is, what is the big picture? And how do I secure it? From a very small standpoint, to a big standpoint, and, and still having that hunger in that grind? I appreciate that. And I'm Moose brought to my attention. And we don't really go too much into the service , what this lady said, and I'll let Moose set it up. Pretty much goes along with what inky said of just being personal. So Moose if you can set that that vibe up.

Yeah, it just it kind of came up and fit perfectly with what we were talking about. Jessica Holtz is this young lady's name. She's an agent for some of the top players in the NBA. Chris Paul, DEVIN BOOKER, cat, right now the reason why Anna Booker, try saying that six times. Booker Booker Booker book, man

what a little convicted did DEVIN BOOKER?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Come back. I said DEVIN BOOKER, you know, but no, the reason why I thought This is dope. First off, if you've been following, you know, just sports in general. Both DEVIN BOOKER, emphasis on the book are all right. Both he and cat signed Max deals this week. That event also was only his first name, this time, renewed his shoe deal with with Nike into I believe, like 2029 or 2030, something crazy like that. My point is, this young lady is responsible for a lot of what has happened in the last week or so in the NBA with some of the biggest contracts. I think she's just closed nearly a half a billion dollars in contracts. So here's an agent with close to half a billion dollars in contracts. And here's what she has to say about her approach with

Jessica Holtz  
Your job is to make it so that they can worry about what they need to worry about. You take care of what you can take care of. And just sort of be a support system for them in their careers. I take it personal, I will say it's you know, they they've become friends. And it's not about being their friends, but it's sort of we're partners in this and you know, I care I care a lot. And so working day to day it's, you know, every little thing that needs to be taken care of between myself, our team, our broader company, you know, and what are your dreams? What should we accomplish? What's the timeline for accomplishing them? Well Like deals can we get you that, you know, position you in the way that you want to be positioned?

Mostafa Ghonim  
So good. My favorite part about it is her telling you that she looks at this as a partnership. And this is this is the place where I hope a lot of us, especially those who are service in the service industry, or we provide service based services, I was gonna say that makes no sense. But yeah, let's just say that. Yeah, I'm with it too. But this, the getting to a point where you are partners with your clients, whatever you whatever barriers you need to remove, to get to that position where you feel comfortable in being partnered in their business in their success with them, I can guarantee you, that's where a lot of the magic happens. Because at that point, you're no longer counting the cost, meaning, you're not saying to yourself, oh, they don't pay me enough for me to do that. Or they're not going to appreciate this, or I'm not going to be in benefit or gain benefit from that, why would I do that, that's going to make them better than me. All right, these are all really low level. Just I don't, I don't want to just call them insecurities, but just issues or thoughts that will never allow you to experience the level of success that someone like Jessica Holtz just explained, right? You got to get to a point where you can establish partnerships with your clients. And again, I'm not saying like official partnerships where you guys are business partners, but just in the way that you structure, your work relationship or the dealings of how you guys go, so that you can go all in for them, and you treat it as if it's yours, that's where you're going to create maximum impact. That's where you're gonna get these types of clients and opportunities. And people are going to want to refer you people are going to want to work with you, they're going to want to pay you extra, even though they know they can maybe get something similar elsewhere for less you know what it is for a client to say, I'll pay you more, although I know I can get this something, something similar for less. It's the convenience of knowing that you are going to care for my stuff in a way that I know this next person isn't. And I'd rather spend the extra money to stay with you. We have a history of winning together. So I want to stay with you. So that's definitely one of the things that I really appreciated in her approach is that at the end of the day, she's treating this like, if I'm a partner, I'm invested in it as if it's my even if it's you know, I'm she's not the one that Sally playing basketball. But you know, I'm saying she's involved in it in a way that it's hers. And I think that's why you're seeing the success that she's having and being able to negotiate these deals for her for her clients.

Nicky Saunders  
Facts and then go over that one. You can Yeah, you said that perfectly. Yeah, there's, there's some things that you just don't have to go over. I promise you. Um, listen, people. We got a really dope after show coming up. Called audible. This is gonna be for my introverts. All right. Gonna be for my introverts. Definitely go check out the after show. If you have Apple, it's the All Access squad. So go check that out. Follow us on all social media platforms. Shout out to all our YouTubers because we're over 10k with that. Worm. We're on the road of 10k on Instagram lately, okay. And followers on Tiktok. We're doing good over there. Facebook, Twitter, wherever your favorite platform is. Moose, final words?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, not just because we're going into a recession. Do I want you to take this, you know, with with a little bit more care or diligence, but it really is a rule to live by. I wrote this the other day, and I said, more valuable than what you make, or what you make doesn't make you valuable, but the one who made you does, right. It's about that part of it. And also understand that as I'm referring to the Creator, that is who also created the people that you're dealing with. So be kind and treat people fairly man, that's the best way to get ahead in this world.