Jan. 11, 2022

Episode 67 - Another Breakup Over Money?


Check out today’s episode as your hosts discuss what’s poppin’ with Earn Your Leisure Podcast, Jessica Simpson being a billion-dollar company, and saying goodbye to I Am Athlete.

The business blueprints in this episode are ones you definitely want to add to your arsenal. So, grab your favorite note-taking device and check it out.

What You Will Learn:

  • Being sure to seize the moment instead of hiding from it
  • The importance of roles
  • The significance of strategically leveraging relationships
  • Different ways to build a business and grow a brand
  • The necessity of making the vision plain
  • How to properly collaborate
  • Think bigger

 

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Transcript

Nicky Saunders  
what’s poppin what’s poppin what’s poppin. Welcome to Nicky and moose im, Nicky. That's moose, What’s up moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  
What up y’all?

Nicky Saunders  
welcome to episode I think we're at 6767. So, in this episode we're going to be talking about the EY L. Experience. Yes, I'm going to talk about it. Okay, we're gonna talk about buying your name back with Jessica Simpson and we are going to talk about a podcast, a very famous podcast that has allegedly broken up and what we can learn from a branding and business standpoint moose. How are we feeling about this?

Mostafa Ghonim  
man, this this episode is going to show you that success is simple and available to all of us. You just got to tune in let's get to it.

Nicky Saunders  
Alright, let's get into this intro 

Jaymie Jordan  
Two kids from Queens. Cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand yeah I'm talking about Nicky and moose bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force, more importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know and love the most.

Nicky Saunders  
So you already know what time it is it was the review of the week. And this one says A must listen. Just when I thought it couldn't get any better. You guys killed it. Again, the amount of gems dropped in this episode people charged 1000s For this will definitely be on repeat. Because when I say gems after gems was dropped, I appreciate everything you guys do. Just real and uncut. Start a great start to the new year at Curvy Girl corner. And look a shout out to everybody who leaves us a review. Please continue to do that on Apple podcast. And pod chasers. That's what it is pod chasers. Now you can leave a rating on Spotify. Yes, just a few stars here and there. However you want preferably five but you know not gonna say yeah, but preferably five. So please do that. And we appreciate it. And of course, shout out to our audio listeners and our viewers whether it's YouTube, Facebook, whatever kind of platform you're doing this on, but moose How are we feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man? I feel so good. So good. I am grateful and getting better every day. Okay, you know, just trying to continue to ride the momentum man. And yeah,

Nicky Saunders  
why? Why? Why? Why? Why with moose it feels like it is just such a mystery its like I want to know more. Right? He did say he was getting more transparent, but I feel like we are in this like, like warm upstage. It's like I gotta, I gotta talk to you. Nice. I'm building up to it. Yeah, no, no, no, no. It's like, it's like hot and cold. It's like, sometimes you'd be like, hey, so let me tell you everything. And then other days, it's like, giving me mommy answers. Like, I'm good. I'm outside you know, I'm going I'm going over there. Where’s there? you know, out, you know.

Mostafa Ghonim  
sometimes I just run out of, I've run out of words. Like

Nicky Saunders  
Your a very intelligent guy. I'm not. I'm not really sure how you run out of words. So it's Yeah.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Well I will say this. So I'm good. I will say this, actually, ya know, as far as me, I'm good. Me personally, I'm good. Getting better. I've been talking about my journey over the last three months, which has been incredible. I'm so grateful to God, I'll continue to work my butt off to stay above the water. But I will say I had a couple guys come in to do some work to kind of like masterminding and thinking about, you know, our next step, New Year, extreme execution, like, what are we doing on the business side and all this good stuff. And, man, what an incredible weekend that was shout out to T shout out to Brandon, who came in and just really helped us get a great perspective around what needs to happen. What are some of the upgrades and adjustments that need to go into it? And yeah, I just, I think for me as even as a leader, it helped me to kind of sit down and do a lot more listening. And see, what are the people saying what is the feedback? What changes would they like to see made and then take that feedback and put it into the business plan? So that was a lot of fun. So I will say a little bit different, slightly off topic, but I really did enjoy that. That's going to be noted. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
Um, I had a great experience. I had a great experience and talk about it. So what day January 7 is the day that myself moose, and Nick went to the EYL headquarters. EYL Headquarters, I recorded a episode with them about content that was really, really good. Um really good. And just learning a lot from being behind the scenes of a number one podcast, like, from like very humble beginnings of like, Gil, we're going to use our phone and we're going to use just a mic. And we're going to do it in the living room and see how that goes. And, you know, going from let's just talk amongst each other, to let's bring in some people to, okay, let's use our platform to really highlight other people I didn't know, you know, they kind of broke Wall Street Trapper shout out to trap for the last episode. You know, they, you know, Alec's shout out to good energy. And just being intentional with people may who may be doing something, but don't have a really large platform. They're like, Yo, let let that be our responsibility. Let us highlight you guys in ways that maybe other people haven't, or that you have been able to do it yourself. And, and do it that way. And then as well as not only just thinking of themselves as a podcast, just thinking of themselves as probably like, what we've been hearing lately of just like a media company, right, um, from, you know, from the podcast, to creating a podcast network, to having deals with like black effect, and, you know, doing things with revolt, and there's so much more that they have coming in store that I'm looking forward to just as like somebody who just studies the game, for sure. Right. And it's definitely, I definitely asked a lot of questions. I shared it. And really did I did, I probably OD, but I really don't care. Because I don't know, I'm thinking for me, I rather OD on the questions, then not ask any. You know, I'm big on. I'll figure it out. Yeah, you know, whatever it is, because my mistakes is going to be my lessons. And so I can really, like I used to have this whole thing, like, how they do it is cool. But I'm going to figure it out my own way. And I'm just like, Okay, I don't really have time for that. I just don't, um, there's, there's probably some, I think it depends on the situation where I'll be like, Nah, I'm good. I'm here, I may have to go too long. I'm working on myself, I understand my flaws. But with them, I felt like, okay, you know, I should take advantage of this, because I'm not sure. When's the next time I'm going to see that we're, like, we have a lot of mutual friends and everything, but I don't really take that for granted. So why don't you just ask all the questions because either you were interested in it, or you do see a, you know, what we're doing getting in those same predicaments. You know, so, it was 2022 imma be asking a whole lot of questions. People may be like, Oh, why are you asking? A lot? Like, I needed to go like, 30 minutes ago. Yeah, we say didn't I will say that. They answered all my questions. They seem fine. They got actually way more comfortable there. Right. Let's talk about it, you know, boom, boom, boom, um, but also seeing the roles that those two play. Yeah, understanding that one is on a tech side, and the other one is the branding and content side of things. And then they come together, but like, how Troy was just like, Yo, I will find stuff and to spend the time of just Alright, cool. I righted I have to create it. I have to post it. He made it sound such like a task. I was like, oh, okay, I get it. But then

he's like, I give it to, to Shawty and it gets up in a matter of a couple of minutes. And it blows up. Wow. So it's a it's like, I dish you the information. He takes care of it and it's amazing. It's like it's not just leaned on one or the other. And then I learned the tech side because it’s in  my house like makes sense. He, He doesn't need to even do nothing with it. I'll figure it all out. So I love seeing the different roles with the amongst the two because it's like, okay, what, you know, we've always had, and we had an issue with roles before. It's like, what is what is my role? What are we doing? Right? So it's cool to see other people do it, how they do their podcast, how they interact with each other, and how they go about the success that they've had. Because if we plan even though we've had a little bit yummy a lot more to do. But, um, even with the, you know, seeing their level of success, like how did they handle those situations? And what keeps them grounded? Understanding that charts didn't mean nothing to them. It still won't mean anything. The all the the power of concentrating on your show first, before bringing on putting other people on. So like, what I love is if people don't know they have their own podcast network, which is the EYL network, right. And they have great shows they have the ash cash show they have this. What else they have the Dave No, no, they have the rents in Oh Ranson, gents. I think Jim, oh, man, I forgot what it’s called. 

Mostafa Ghonim  
Oh, something rants and gems. Okay.

Nicky Saunders  
There it is. There it is. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Matt. Don't Don't kill me. Because that's his show. But they have a few shows that are really great. And what's amazing is because they've done such a great job growing their podcast. Anybody that goes into their network, pretty much gets to charts. Hmm. Because of how, you know how solid they've been. And so their audiences instantly going to trust believe you. Yeah. And so it teaches me Just hearing that and just paying attention to those things. It's like, before you you can have all these different ideas and dreams of like, Yo, I want this bigger. And that's cool. But did you focus on step one? Yeah. And totally mastered that May. And I'm not saying they've completely mastered podcasting, but they've gotten to a success that people have only dreamed of in such a short amount of time. Oh, sure. Yeah.

Mostafa Ghonim  
If you think about, it's only been three years.

Nicky Saunders  
Right, and so with that, once we get to a certain amount, then let's bring on another show. Let's co sign it. Let's let's teach them the blueprint. Let's have certain meetings and things like that. And it was like, okay, and like, Okay, let me give you the connections that I have. And boom, boom, boom. Wow, you know, where I think we've seen the, I got an idea, we'll do this, and we'll bring this and then, and then go and just go, you know, hilarious, no, check. Sure. Go. It's like, yeah, okay, we're gonna figure this out and 9 out of 10 times we do figure it out. But does it need to be figured out that way? When if we was to just concentrate on this and that it's is great to see different scenarios, I will say that it's really, really good to see different scenarios. So once again, shout out to EYL Thank you, thank you for having myself, moose. And, Nick, because it was important for me to have Nick Yeah, I always I always love having Nick around. And just him seeing because with behind the scenes, people, they don't necessarily connect with everybody. So for Nick to just even connect with them. And you know, the people who were recording the podcast, it was very important. So, shout-out to EYL, Um I don't know when the episode is gonna be out. I don't know. I don't know. I wish I did. But I don't. It is what it is. And we'll let you know when the podcast comes out. I mean, I'm just I'm just saying moose What was your biggest takeaway when it came to the EYL visit?

Mostafa Ghonim  
I mean, from a personal standpoint, I got to speak to the humility. I think just seeing guys who watching through the phone or we even ran, we ran into them actually, in Atlanta at the circle CEO conference where E was going there like We saw on both days or whatnot, but still like, you can't really know someone until you actually sit with them in a room and have a conversation, regardless of how much they show of themselves, or talk or whatever how many episodes, you've seen their show, until you sit down and have a conversation with someone, you really get to see the true side of them. So I'm taking into consideration how much success they've had over the last three years, and to be in the room with them and see how down to the earth they are, how willing they were to share information with you. I really appreciated that. And of course, I think just the overall concept of them continuing to bring people on their platform and take people along with them. Right. Like, they're very, very adamant about that are passionate about that. So I appreciate it that, you know, from a business side, it's cool to see how strategic they are in terms of what's coming next. Yeah, you know, like that, that to them was very, very important. And they really know how to build relationships. Yep. And leverage relationships appropriately. They, you know, they weren't afraid to mention that like, Yo, you know, what, like, yeah, leverage did that. That made sense, Because from a leverage standpoint, then we can do that. So I think just to see, that its so simple. Yeah. It's being consistent. And sticking to the basics. It's a very simple concept that over time you can look up three years and you never know when your season is, you know, like they they caught fire with that market Monday show and next thing you know, it's like it's been a it's been a wrap

Nicky Saunders  
Shout out to Ian. Yeah, yeah. People start start tagging the Master Investor, please. Who Ian To tell him that he needs to get on Nicky and moose. I'm just saying just saying. Yes, this needs to happen. And then you know, maybe maybe we can get the EYL guys, come on, on the pocket. Listen, we need to break down how this all happened. I don't know if I don't know if that. We had the Simple Stories. We've heard it before. It started with And we got it.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Now we need to inside

Nicky Saunders  
we need the business talk. Branding talk we know kind of prep, I kind of prepped y’all when I was kinda prepped yall while I was there, but uh, please, actually, I'll look into Hold on. Let me look into the camera. Um market Monday, people. Hello, right. How are you doing? We watch it all the time. Really great live show. That is done perfectly on YouTube. Sometimes tech issues like we have it. And that's just how life is. However, comma. We would love to break down the whole situation. Okay, from where the name came from, from the feeling of the first episode to When did you go into getting sponsors? How did you go about it? What is the business model? Things like that. How did you do the content? How did we get to a million followers? How did everybody in market Monday get verified? Can we just talk about it? Yeah. Can we can we have so so. Ershad Troy ian would love to have you on Nicky and moose podcast, just for the breakout whether it is together individually, however you feel like it. We just we just want to do this for the people because people want to duplicate what you guys have. I'm just saying that’s just how we feel. But let's get into some. Some talk about buying. Buying names back we last week. Not last week, the week before that. Listen, listen, shout out to trap because he killed that episode. Um, but the week before that, we talked about Diddy buying back, Sean John Right. Well, it seems like another situation with Jessica Simpson, on how Jessica Simpson bought back, bought her name back. So Bloomberg Businessweek covered it and said when your billion dollar empire implodes, you get a loan. Go to bankruptcy court and start over right now. She had a Jessica Simpson collection, which was a clothing brand for like, middle class. Right. And did I'm gonna let moose talk about it because moose moose breaks this down just so lovely.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I mean, I think the interesting part to me when I came across that post, like middle of the week, and I sent it to you, it just caught me by surprise that the name Jessica Simpson and Bill Dollar brands were used in the same phrase. I'm like, Okay, and again, no offense to Jessica Simpson. I mean, no, no, whatsoever. But it's just like, wait a minute, where were you? For nearly a decade or 20 years, whatever it's been, and then pop up on a billion. Yeah, what happened? So for us, I think it definitely caught some interest. And why we're sharing it is because we want to show those of you who are building a business growing a brand, whatever it may be, we want to show you different outlets of how you can do this thing. Yes, there is the bootstrap it be consistent, pumped content until something happens. And then you start rolling out products and services and merchandise and events and partnerships, and collabs. And ads. That's one way. But clearly, she showed us something that was a little bit different this time around. Because she was like, well, instead of me having to go throughout this whole process, I have no knowledge of the fashion industry. I don't know how to design, I don't know how to do any of that. So why don't I just use my name and sell it to a company that can Yep, the company is able to now take your name rights and go out and build your brand for you for a sizable fee. Now, when we looked at the percentages, it was well, a little bit over 60%. They were taking, but they also paid her for that. Okay, so you get a good sizable check in exchange for that, to run it down to where we are now. And I think you spoke on it their audience, they focused on middle class females, young teenagers who wanted to kind of be in style somewhat shopping at Macy's. The brand when they sold it that way. There was Jessica Simpson's business partner that was involved in the equation that helped to oversee the operation helped to oversee what was happening, right? How are these deals being made? Or how is the company performing the whole nine. Unfortunately, that person passed away. And that created a scenario where the company had a reshuffle. So they brought in another young executive, who made a promise of like, you know, what, we're gonna take this thing to two or 3 billion, we're gonna like double it pretty much in size. And that didn't happen. Right? They kind of went into a situation where, according to the article that we read, they over promised, under delivered and couldn't make it happen. So luckily, for Jessica Simpson, that company was going bankrupt, and they had to sell off everything they owned. Hmm. So that's put the ball back in her court, and had her go out to buy that brand back simply because her name is on it. Hmm. And every time this scenario comes up, I always think about what Virgil said, you know, again, may he rest in peace, of course, but we covered that concept where he says, Your name is so important. So when your name is your brand, that's, that's a forever thing. Like, you got to be careful what happens with that. So again, we see somebody else wanting to do things, right, because it's their name. So they she goes out and acquires the brand, you know, and put yourself back in the driver's seat.

Nicky Saunders  
I think, um, what was interesting about this particular thing, was that the licensing situation, like, I think I was really trying to understand it as far as it like, Okay, I know, licensing is normally for like music. Yeah. And she really just was like, Okay, I'm, I'm a sell. Um, um, sell my name, like, let them use it. For the best manufacturers to come up with this collection. And I was like, okay, and we were having conversations, like, how did you? How did you sell if you were already doing the licensing thing? Like, how did this make sense? And come to find out that the, after the business partner had passed away, the new company had bought it for about, like, I want to say and don't quote me, like 117 million. Right. And then afterwards, they bought the Martha Stewart one like 300 and some dollars 300 and some dollars. Wow, that was really cheap. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Martha. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That was not wasn't right. It was. It was $353 million. I apologize. Okay. So. So what does that mean? So, that particular company, right was um, was too much over their head. And I think what we learned from that is really not because that particular company said, Hey, we could get you to two to 3 billion more dollars on a consistent basis. Whoa. And with those two acquisitions, it was just it was a little bit too much. It was a little bit too much. And it actually went down and Jessica Simpson was like, Alright, hold on, hold on, you messing, messing with my name. Messing And I'm like, Man, how do we? How do we just stay control of it? Like they gave up? Like, what was it? 63%? Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, huh, it was only for not only it was 417 mill, I'm promising make things sound so like a little only this that and a third. But how do you how do we not continue to see things like a Jessica Simpson? Like a Sean John? And because the when they sell it, They actually like the value goes down. Yeah. Yeah. That's what happened to both of them. Like, it just plummets is like so is there a point? Even though the goal of having a business is to like sell it eventually. But is that the goal? This is a good question. Is that the goal when it's your name?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Ah, Nah, no, It can't be so look I think. And seriously not to kind of like, blow our own horns. But basically, I think the cool thing about the show is that it's giving you so many examples of what to do, and what not to do. And clearly, in this scenario, you're starting to see that with certain brands, especially if you're going to be pushing product, your name does not need to, does it need to be like your actual name, Doesn’t need to be the brand name that is probably better to go with something else. So that you don't have to run yourself into the situation again, you just never know where it's going to end up. So your name becomes the brand name. And you're it's a bad situation? Because in a lot of businesses, yes, the point is to sell and for those Why are you laughing about you know, we just make an adjustment to the scene here we are a two man show. Man, I love it. I love it. No, we're just laughing because one of the lights went out so we're over here literally trying to put it out without or replace the light without making the scene but at this point, we might as well just tell everybody, we're replacing the light but no in all seriousness, going back to our conversation, the the concept of business I think, to some extent is to sell it right especially if it's if it's when it reaches such a high valuation where you are maybe no longer interested in being in that industry. You don't have others who you can pass it on to then I don't see that being a bad move. Like we've seen a lot of companies like you know, founders of Instagram sold to Facebook now meta and you know, got got their big payout. WhatsApp, a lot of you know, a lot of companies is what I'm saying eventually sell and take their money and go on to something else. So, so yeah, I think the name situation though, it makes it a very sticky concept. Like if you're if the brand that you're building is going to be your name. Be prepared to hold on to it for dear life.

Nicky Saunders  
That's what it is. Um, and I will say we have one no, not one more topic. Well, it's like a combined topic. I will say that is a combined topic. So how do I put this there is an episode not episode there is a podcast that we've covered here a few times. I am athlete okay. And moose loves this podcast. Loves this podcast. He was like telling me to put it on the podcast like 19 different times and I'm just like, can't keep can keep using the same podcast and he was like yo let’s break it down like five different parts. Can't use their whole podcast. The whole you just want me to play the whole, yeah it was all good. I believe it was but um they Recently parted ways. parted ways. And we have a response of maybe why this parted ways. And we're really trying to go about it from a branding and business side now from a gossipy side or anything like that. But definitely from a branding and business side. And let’s just get into it,

B Marshall   
the last podcast we were on would be marching them. We just we needed the ideologies of it, the foundation of it was different than what we thought it was going to be. As they move forward and became different when it's jumped off at the beginning as it blew up, because it was really like Freddie just said early on, it was just guys sitting around just like we talked like, hey, let's do this. Let's do this RC. Let's chop it up and do this. And then as it blew up, the ideologies, the foundation, what we thought it was going to be in the business side was not what everyone was on the same page with.

Nicky Saunders  
So moose, you start this off.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, so I mean, this this is a a big disappointment, in a sense, right? I mean, the fact that I mean, this was a podcast, I think a lot of people enjoy all different ages, all different groups, men and women, although it's a podcast that is primarily hosted by men. But I think the obviously the clip tells you what happened, right? Over time, things evolved. The reason for why they started was not why they were what they were going after, right. So they're like big changes, which I'm sure for anyone is going to make you kind of wonder like what's happened, I'm sure the audience to some extent, especially if you fell in love with something you fall in love with your favorite show, they come back for season two or season three, and it's a completely different concept, you're probably going to be pretty upset as well. Yep. But the part that sticks out to me is the idea of what we kind of touched on in the beginning, is this concept of role awareness, role clarity, by really understand the different contributions that each person makes. Yeah. So I get why there is disappointment, or frustration for walking away, or no longer wanting to continue. But I look at those issues and say, Man, was it not made clear in the beginning, what each person's role and responsibility was? Or was it not made clear what the vision overall was? And how it can? How it can expand? Yeah, based on what comes up, because there are certain things that you plan for, there are other things that you simply will not know, until you walk down that path and see what's what's at the fork in the road?

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, um, it's funny, because we saw both kind of their, you know, their responses to kind of a question. And the funny thing about is that with B, Marshall, he, the question was, yo, is this like, the Joe Budden breakup? And he's like, Nah, it's not, but didn't really, like, kind of defend it either. Right? So what I'm getting from what we just saw, is, yo, that the vision wasn't clear. Like what we started from, and what it is now, yeah, is two different things. Where as when we covered the Joe Budden thing, it was more, of course, the transparency and the communication about money, but also the vision as well, right? Because Joe was creating a huge Podcast Network. And, you know, they didn't really get that part. So, when, when you're looking at it, probably a group of people and this is where we kind of want to talk it out as far as the brand and business side of this like, when, when you working with a group of people, how important it is to stay very transparent about the vision, and very transparent about the business moves. Because if everybody's involved in it, yeah, like, it's important, maybe not everybody does see, like the grand scheme of things. They came in for a particular reason. And if it goes and changes, then what is that? What does that leave them? Like? Yeah, they may feel a certain kind of gap or a void. That isn't really being explained. And so, you know, like, I assume, as we're seeing how their brands and kind of just like I am this I am that I am Miami I am la I'm thinking about doing Houston I'm I'm NASCAR, I'm like, taking full advantage of the you know what, let's be everything of I am sports somehow some way and be for the culture in this perspective that we have of from athletes from wives of athletes from a, you know, I guess with the NASCAR thing, like just minorities in NASCAR, you know, um, and let's just continue to create because what was very interesting about B Marshalls a response and we're gonna get into a little bit of it from a different perspective. But he was like, Okay, we saw the success with I am athlete. Now, can we do it again? Because that's true success. Like, it's not a fluke. It's not like and I know, C shoutout to you CJ, he's, he was big on that, like, Okay, we did good with with Eric Thomas. But can I do that again? So they did mal shout out to Jamal king? Its like okay. Maybe your just dope in speakers. Did it with Tobe, you know, so people who are successful in one thing, don't want to necessarily be like, be known as maybe that was the fluke. What can you do again? What can you do again? I think I've even had to deal with that. Like, okay, you're successful with E, but can you do it again? Right. And and for me, and being fully transparent. I'm not gonna do it again, for somebody else. I'm gonna do it again for myself. Hmm. You know. Um, so it's like, I get it I get what Brandon Marshall was trying to do. As far as like, let's expand. He's having the entrepreneurship mind like, Yo, this is working let's, let's create a whole situation out of it. This not just keep it a show. You guys may have kept it. You wanted to keep the show. But you were sold the show. I said, Hey, let's do this show. I think it could get sold. You probably didn't say hey, I think this is a show we could create a whole network and create more and more content for the rest of our lives. Right. I'm like, sir, you can't be I don't think anybody's mad what was great about all of them. They're like, Oh, I support. Yeah, well, one, what everybody is doing. And that's, I think that's cool. So with that I don't think it I don't think it is a Joe Budden situation, because, yeah, they're not they're not going at each other . Yeah, they're not doing that. But what I do find funny. I do find funny is, is there's a breakup put up within a podcast expect another podcast. Yeah, Because like the Joe, the warrior mall, podcast is booming, killing it. That thing, they have a million dollar deal. They've been going on tour, They been having great guest, right. And it's just so great to see because it's like, what you think you knew was for watch us, do it by ourselves. And we're still going to be fine. You know? And, and this is why it's so cool to create a such a fan base, because there are people who are rooting for him like, Yo, we followed you from here, we're gonna go support you, right? Some maybe even listened to both like, I love both of y'all. So I want to listen to Joe and I'm going to listen to Rory and mal right. Um, and like I said, they have, they continue to have great guests. So it's more of how do we keep the communication going? And what do you do when you find that first thing that's like, oh, I don't see this. Like, I don't I don't see the vision. Because if I think if you see that from the like, from the front end, you won't reach these certain points, because now just, I'm not gonna say it looks crazy. I'll say a little bit. It looks crazy. Like what we know of I am athlete is just now. Brandon Marshall.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Well, I mean, let me ask you this. Is it is it that we don't know how to collaborate properly. We don't know how to come to the table and take a creative idea and bring people in I kind of figure things out so that we don't, because it kills me to see people reach success and then split up. You get me like, it's like, wait, but that's the pinnacle, like, everyone is going after that thing that you all have just accomplished, right? And we get there. And then we split up from one side of it. I think it's what I've always called the blankets, the blanket statements, which is like, this is what success means. And we think that's what it is. And then we get there and we’re like, he's just looking around like, Yo, this is just terrible. I don't want to be here. Yeah, take me back where I came from. Yeah. So I do think it’s lack of knowledge on what it takes. And then the other part of it, it makes me wonder like, do we not know how to collab? Like, are there certain rules and principles that people should think about before coming together to avoid this situation? Because like, from one side of it every day, we're seeing people collab, and we appreciate it. We're even encouraging people to do so. Yeah. But my question to you is, is there a right way and a wrong way to collab?

Nicky Saunders  
I think it is the who it is, right? What I mean by it's like, there's certain I'll say there's certain personalities that can be mis understood. If they're not communicating, right. You know, I mean, we go through the flight assessment all the time. We haven't done it in a minute on the podcast, but like, you know, I would assume, I would assume that Brandon Marshall within the flight assessment is probably a pilot. Yeah. Right. For those who don't know, what a pilot is, moose, can you break that down?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man, it has been a long time. But let's just give you the at least the pilots themselves, man, people who are bottom line oriented, results driven, they like to get things done right now.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. So I would I would say that, you know, Brandon had the drive, and the vision, right, of everything. And the other ones may have just wanted that role that they had. Right. In which in that particular situation, they collaborated fine. Yeah. It's when it got bigger, where the vision was very clear. And because random marshals is more of a less goal is less growing in this, figure it out as we go. The other ones may not have been in the same alignment with that. And then of course, we can't sit here and say, maybe some money wasn't agreed upon. Yeah, you know, and we don't know details. So that's why we're not necessarily talking too much on that. But overall, it's if you have one person who, who was we call it as a pilot, that is just driving the ship, driving the plane, just and not really communicating. But to the people who are also on the plane. Yeah, this is full blown going. There can be a communication gap, there could be a gap in some way, shape, or form. So I don't necessarily think that we can necessarily collaborate, we just certain certain personalities need to learn when to communicate with their people and when not to, you know, and when that is done, because we've seen great collaboration, it with all types of personalities. And it was probably a full blown transparency, great business models laid everything out on the table as far as money, you know, and opportunities. And if that's all there, I think. I think collaboration is gonna happen with no problem. Yeah, yeah.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, no, I mean, I think the only thing that I would say is ultimately the person who's carrying the biggest burden, or the greatest, the greatest piece of the risk is under different circumstances than people who are just showing up a supporting cast. So that that's the only kind of fine line that I will say in this is that it's difficult to really trust and do something for somebody else. If if the risk is all on your back, okay. You know, like if you got to carry everything, and this person is not even there. Or they're, you know, like your name is on the contracts. Your name is on the invoices, your name is on this. It's like you If you leave, I still owe this money. Right? Hypothetically speaking, right? So I think for the person who is carrying the greatest piece of the risk that from a collaboration standpoint, it may seem unfavorable. But if that's the case, I think people should start paying their way.

Nicky Saunders  
But then, okay, so hmm. You know, your reach, you know, hit a nerve. I'm going to try to move slowly with this one. Um, because Okay, so if we're, we're talking about I am athlete, right? Ah, and what moose was saying was more like, because Brandon Marshall was talking about, you know, I put this in I put this in, I put this in, I put 50 G's for the production, I put this, I put that. Now, that's not to say we don't know what the others have done. So I'm not particularly going to speak to too heavy on that. But what I will speak on is, what if they were never given an opportunity to put money in? You know, what, if the person was more like, I'll take care of it? I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. You know, you know, you guys. Don't worry. You just stay in your role, right. But then kind of uses it as a clutch as well as leverage. Yeah, like, Yo, I did this, this, this this this? Like, how do you? I don't know if it's like, how do you identify that? Because it's very hard. It's very hard, because they lead with very genuine situations. But when then So something happens, then the blame game comes in? So it's like, How do? I believe, like, there has to be a if there's the equal giving equal sacrifice, right? Some person might put up all the money. That's okay. Yeah. Because what are the other people doing? Yeah. And is it valued? That's very important. Because some, some people may think the money is more important than necessarily the support or the actions of getting people there and making sure the guests are cool. And they got all the rooms and they come on time. Yeah, that person who put up the amount of money may not have really cared about that, because maybe they feel like they could do it. So I think with if we can understand the, the roles everybody plays and put value to it. I think that's where everything can go a little bit smoother. But of course, it's hard when you put up a glob of money. And then is like, I know, I have you guys here and it probably may not have happened, even though the way he played like, Yo, they wanted me to change this person, that person, this person. And I said, No, these are my guys. But I think at the end of the day, you're still doing that.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah. I mean, that's what that's what's been happening now. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, if I can extract any lessons from it, and even from experience, I think the single most important part of any negotiation is the beginning of the conversation. Hmm, that's good. Because if if you go into that first conversation, and you're just excited at the fact that you're partnering, you're collaborating, or the potential earning income of whatever it may be, you're whomever it may be with. And you don't put or make clear what the points are, what the what the things are that are important to you, you there is no going back. You can't say, oh, well, you know, Nicky I tried it. And actually, can we go back? It's like, no, no, no. Right? So it's like you if you if you want to avoid bad scenarios, and that's why even like it from a business standpoint, we always have a saying that says, hire slow. Fire fast. Yeah. Because if I take my time to vet, have multiple conversations, and really see what's happening, and what's this about, and ask my questions, and give you the opportunity to ask me questions. After a couple of those meetings, I'm gonna know if this is a go or not, yeah. But if I if I commit to you fast, then everything else that comes up is going to feel like a surprise because you can give me your best impressions on the very first time. Whatever happens after that is no clue. So I think it's the same thing at the negotiation table. You gotta be very clear with laying those things out out front, because once you're past that negotiation stage, you don't have leverage. If you're not the one who's running the ship. You don't have leverage. to come back and want to call out shots or want to make changes.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm with it people. But I will say there's a lot to learn from the I am athlete situation. They are another blueprint not only for podcast but like just for people who are producing content in general, right. So Brandon Marshall broke down like this really great blueprint of how to monetize your content, whether it's a show or anything like that, and we have it

B Marshall   
Need the traditional networks anymore. And so now it's like, okay, let's study Pat McAfee, what is he doing? How's he repurposing content, he shoot one show and now it's repurpose on 10 different platforms, in a hour audio video, tour, boom, boom, boom. So now if you have the template, the game plan, the blueprint, in your content, sticky its good. Follow the blueprint, you can take this show and you can monetize it in so many different ways. I got audio, I got video and then other distribution got YouTube, maybe we do a linear deal with the HBO or Showtime an Amazon or Netflix etc, etc. Right? Then you got Snapchat, Instagram. You got Tik Tok. Yeah, but making money though. There's so many different things towards

Nicky Saunders  
so It’s only right that I start it off. Yeah. So man it in that in that interview, right? He breaks down like, yo, the Joe Rogan's and you know, the Joe buttons and William Willie Gilliam wallow, sorry. No, no disrespect Gilliam? wallow? Um pretty much have done it. I set the bar up. Yeah. And they leave the blueprint out. And all we have to do is follow it. Right. And there are so many different ways that we're not even looking at any even us that we're not even looking at how to fully take what we are creating and repurposing it. In order to make a bag. I think I can speak for myself, I instantly think of repurposing it just for the level of impact. But the people who are really winning is the people who like how do we sell this show? How do we sell this piece of content? How do we sell we're creating in order to not only impact but also make a bag from these particular situations, because we're spending our time and our money to continue to make this work. Right. And so how he really breaks it down to from audio to to YouTube and doing different different segments that like, this is America does an amazing job of this, right? They were one of the like early ones of now they have they went from a show to Then, I think it was a vice I believe to then now Showtime and they'll show parts of it on YouTube to be able to get to YouTube money, but then to still go on Showtime and do the whole show. You know, it creates a different level of a producer mindset. You know, it creates this like, it doesn't stop with just a podcast. It doesn't stop with just maybe some sponsorship deals and affiliate marketing like how are you completely milking your content and creating something bigger? And I'm like, why am I just looking at podcasts as podcasts? Like they're not looking at the top ones are not looking at podcasts like podcasts? We just broke broke it down with EVL earlier. Yeah, you know, and it's like, why do we, in this another reason why I don't like labels, because labels will limit you. Right? Right. You know, labels will limit you because if you think about a podcast instantly, well now. It's like audio and video. And you think of two ways. You think of just putting it onto the streaming platforms and you put it on YouTube and you keep it moving you get like some brand deals this that and the third depending on your numbers and that is it. But that's not meaning to say at yo how can you sell this show up to like, how we covered before with maybe a Netflix? Like what maybe what has to be changed what has to be added? You know, we have a live show, what do we do with the live show? You know how things improve, so it can be sold to these different platforms and make money from it. And, and I'm like, pay attention to the blueprint. Yeah, yeah. Pay attention to what? The it keeps getting done in their own different swag. But it keeps getting done repeatedly.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, I think the it's, and that's why I said in the very beginning, when I started, I said, this episode is going to show you that success is simple, and it's obtainable for all of us. If you can get a nice message out there, focus on a good story that people resonate with. And you get people to start watching and tuning in with you. You you deliver something to the people that is of need, that is a value, especially in their time of most need. Yeah, right. When we think about EYL, at least for me, I think about you brought financial literacy during the time of a pandemic, like a global pandemic. I mean, it couldn't have been a better time. Yeah. Now, beautiful thing for them. And this was definitely destiny because they started a year, their second years, almost at the start of the pandemic, and boom, they take off with it. Perfect timing. Yeah. So you think about it, you you serve an audience or you bring a piece of information or a set of principles and valuable information to a group of people at their time of most need. And they start tuning in with you. You that is that's the part that you need to start building on. So you're right, I do think in some ways, I can see the benefit of being labeled a podcaster. Simply because we're we're looking at bigger platforms say they're going to invest big money into podcasts, we saw Netflix, say we saw Spotify say we saw many others say like, Hey, podcasting is still early. And we're going to put a lot of our resources behind it. But on the flip side of it, I think although as creators, you might want to know that that's what category you're under. You need to think about yourself from a bigger standpoint. Yeah. Are you a media company? Are you a production company? Are you a network? Are you a show? By are you what are you know, I think there's more to it, than we just a few minor adjustments, you can see yourself following a similar format, just because you have the numbers. As long as you have people who are engaged and listening to you. I think that's the benchmark to run with.

Nicky Saunders  
I like that. I like that I think um, I think it just is I can hear me stuttering that was crazy. Um, I think it just goes more of always think bigger. You know, it's not it's not a piece of content it is a potential show. It's a potential podcast, it's not just a podcast is a potential movie, it’s a potential book, you know, it is a potential ongoing radio, whatever your your goal possibly is, like it's just something more that we're not seeing. And the control is more on us more than anything else then before Yeah, what I loved that he said is that we don't necessarily need the traditional networks anymore. You know, we create our own. And it's really cool. But, you know, the one thing now I'll leave this for the after show on the after show, shout out to for our apple podcast listeners who are subscribed to the after show, that's just where you get a little bit more unraw unraw, raw and uncut unraw what the always right the raw and uncut of kind of our thoughts and kind of where we're coming from, and certain strategies that we kind of just tell people and brainstorm about today. You got a lot of board right there. Oh, wow. Okay, we'll talk about it in the after show. But, um, this was a good episode. I will say that. Um, don't forget, please leave us a review a rating on Spotify. Definitely check out our YouTube especially our live show that happens on Tuesdays. But Besides that, moose final words.

Mostafa Ghonim  
yeah, this might sound funny to some, but I hope it frees many more. And I was having a conversation I mentioned, you know, the fellas coming over the weekend and we were having a conversation just as we're talking about different concepts and what people are after. And I don't know why this came to me, but I was like, time freedom without money is unemployment. Hmm. Because you have free time. But you don't have the freedom of finances to allow you to enjoy your time. So you really just sitting around doing nothing. So some one of the main reasons why we struggle or we might even find ourselves in situations is because we're afraid to ask for what we're worth. We feel that we might be overstepping boundaries. So just remember that time freedom without money is unemployment.