Episode 59 - Bye Haters

Nicky Saunders  
whats poppin whats poppin whats poppin welcome to Nicky and moose I'm Nicky that's moose What's up moose? and welcome to episode 59 And listen we already got a title we we know exactly what we're talking about it's gonna be called bye haters.

Mostafa Ghonim  
presidential

Nicky Saunders  
we are going to be talking about meta aka Facebook we're going to of course talk about the Kanye west interview yes we are and we are going to touch on the Astro world tragedy Travis Scott concert and what happened with that and all the that occurred but moose How are we feeling about the episode?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man I'm I'm I'm feeling good. I mean, I the episode I know is gonna be good, but I'm kind of in a good mood because you know, send me over here with the matching tans if you just listen to this wait to the next day and you catch the video this wasn't planned. I mean, I just kind of like oh, slightly slightly different tone but you know I'm saying I don't know when you when you matchin on this kind of frequency. You got to believe it's gonna be a fire episode. So yeah, let's get it

Nicky Saunders  
lets get into this intro

Jaymie Jordan  
two kids from Queens. Cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand. Yeah, I'm talking about Nicky and moose, bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force. More importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know and love the most.

Nicky Saunders  
And You already know what time it is it is the review of the week. So this one says sincere apology. I truly love and admire the content you put out consistently. I've been listening casually and always thought I should leave a review. But something would come up and I forget as I was listening to Episode 57 You interviewed your your interview with Connie s falla. Shout out to Connie. I was compelled to pull over and force a moment to say thank you. I sincerely apologize for leaving a wait, I sincerely apologize for I'm gonna say he meant not leaving a review before. Yep. But today, I was convicted and had to thank you for this particular blessing. Blessing and all the work you put to educate and entertain. Keep leading the way. Ernie

Mostafa Ghonim  
brother. Our brother, Mr. Uncle Ernie,

Nicky Saunders  
 Extreme execution coach. Just all the way, Don't let me let me shout out the podcasts, you know. So if you have a podcast, the best way to get shouted out is leaving us a review. 

Mostafa Ghonim  
lil, smart lil plug.

Nicky Saunders  
Right there. Yeah, right. Ernie has a amazing podcast for all our relationship married people or even single people. Lovely. Oh, lovey from Oh, no, wait, wait, wait. married into crazy. I was like lovey, what are you talking about love, but that's his character. Okay, I got it. You're married into crazy. Okay, that's his podcast. Go check it out. It's him and his wife is a whole vibe. shout out to ernie. And of course, shout out to everybody who leaves us a review. We read them. We love you. We appreciate you. Shout out to all our audio listeners. All our viewers. Wherever you are watching this or hearing this from Moose. How are we feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Hey, I'm feeling pretty good. Honestly, it's um, yeah, I'm so grateful to be honest with you. I mean, obviously not just to be cliche, cliche and say, Oh, I'm grateful because it's, you know, the month of thanksgiving and this is when you give thanks. And you want to be a little bit intentional about it. But yeah, I don't know. I guess I'm just really I'm really proud of us. I'm really proud of myself and I'm excited to close off this year strong and rock into next year. Like I'm actually feeling pretty good about this. I'm like, Yeah, this is good, man. I feel so good about it. Some some just tells me it's cool. Let's go and take Oh,

Nicky Saunders  
okay. All right. Let me give me Okay, you feeling great? You feel great?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah. Some good, grateful

Nicky Saunders  
details, really, but he's feeling great.

Mostafa Ghonim  
No details. You asked how you feel. You didn't say give me the details. I'm just talking about how I'm feeling.

Nicky Saunders  
Oh my god. Okay. Do you care to share? Like, a hint of why you may be? No, okay. Oh, no. I'm gonna try every week. Just for you. I'm gonna try every week, maybe for New Years. He may just say I went outside he just made gave a detail that he never did before. It's possible. Okay, it's

Mostafa Ghonim  
I love it. I love it. What's new in your world, man, give us give us a quick rundown.

Nicky Saunders  
Um, man. 2022 is already forming for me. And that's weird. Because, you know, I'm not a planner of any sort. So the universe is planning. But yeah, so no, it's fine. I'm totally, uh, I'm aware of my flaws. And some of them I don't try to fix but it's okay. It's alright. Um, but, uh, there was a big announcement as far as the biggest the biggest event in my industry, Social Media Marketing World. I'm a speaker on there and it's going to be in San Diego. In I believe in March. No, may. Somewhere. So I think is one of the M's. Don't one of the months with. Yeah. One of the M's okay. I'm bad with it. Because it's so far ahead. I don't know. What am I? 

Mostafa Ghonim  
but that's how you know you get in big time though. But when you start? Yeah. thats how you know, you're getting big time when you start planning the year before the year turns. Yeah, yeah. No, totally. Okay.

Nicky Saunders  
But the crazy thing is like one of the M's the month that start with M's people going to Cancun again and the other one, I'm going to San Diego. So

Mostafa Ghonim  
So you booked out? Yeah, yeah. You booked up

Nicky Saunders  
and then found out that going back to Jamaica, right. Next year? Why? Um, mal stuff. So Oh, mal, Right? Yeah, mal went to Cancun, the, uh, this year? And now next year, he will be sewing. Yeah.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Got it. Got it. Okay. Make sense. I thought cuz I was like, I know. Phenomenal life. Next year is gonna be back in Cancun. So my way they switched it to Jamaica but no. Okay, I follow what you said. 

Nicky Saunders  
yeah, no, no, no mals, not going. Mals, not doing Cancun again, he's like, Alright, I'm good. I'm good on that. So, um, yeah, so it's weird. It's it's just very weird, but it's, it seemed to be forming. Um, January's looking crazy. It's just weird. I'm not used to this. Um, and so, you know, you text me earlier. I'll say some details. See I got yall. Um, you text me earlier. Um, and I was just like, Yo, just walking, clearing my head. And just reflecting because I'm like, this year for me was different. I feel like this year was more of like, observing what's going to happen. And now it's like, next year is the execution of like, what was supposed to have is weird for me. I'm like, I had to really think about this. Like, why do I feel like this year? Just wasn't a regular year. Like last year We were good. And that was definitely not a regular year.

Mostafa Ghonim  
And that wasn't a regular year. Yeah. That's accurate. Yeah, that's accurate. Yeah, maybe maybe we'll do like a year end review on one of us on the live shows. And like really break down the year. I could share some stuff on that. Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
We may have something we set you. I don't know what episode that's gonna be. But look forward to it. Get ready for it. But let's get into this week's episode of yeah, um, we're gonna start off in a in a very kind of sad situation. Right? Um, AstroWorld. So, November fifth. Travis Scott did his yearly concert called AstroWorld. It's normally like a two day event. But there was the crowd was out of control. Now Travis Scott is normally known for like, the mosh pit crazy audience. I mean, we went over him. Some of the clips that we even showed it was just like they were, the fans go crazy for Travis. And even in the past, we spoke that he is one of the most influential people in this in this year, or of our pretty much like timeframe right now. Because he is known for having those out of control audiences. This time didn't go so well. It was a little bit too much. Nine people, as of the time we are recording this have passed away hundreds have been injured. And it is it's just really bad. It's been on the news every single day. So we do have his apology, but I do want to talk about it from like, what, as a brand, what do you do? And as a brand that is associated with him? What do you do? So, let's, let's hear what Travis has to say.

Travis Scott  
I just want to send out prayers to the to ones that was lost last night. We're actually working right now to identify the families. So we can help assist them through this tough time. You know, my fans, my fans, like, my fans really mean the world to me, and I always just really want to leave them with a positive experience. Anytime I can make out, you know, anything that's going on, you know, you know, I stopped the show and, you know, help them get the help they need, you know, I could just never imagine the sevarity of the situation. We've been working closely. We've been working closely with everyone who just tried to get to the bottom of this city, Houston, HPD Fire Department, you know, everyone, you know, help us help us figure this out. So if you if you have any information you know, please just contact your local authorities

Nicky Saunders  
so yes, very unfortunate. super huge tragedy. I don't think we've heard, um, have so many people dying in a concert. At least I haven't. Right. Um, but like I said, I want to, I want to talk about it. I've sent you some stuff fortnite, and we went over that, and in our past episodes where fortnite had Travis Scott as far as like, like a skin, as well as a concert, like just the first kind of first of its kind, right? And fortnite dropped him. And they're different, you know, different articles, that's even saying like, Nike needs to leave him alone for a bit. You know, Travis Scott needs to lay lay a bit low, like there's a lot of heat for whatever, you know, for whatever he does, paparazzi is on him when he was, you know, outside. I think literally after that event, he went somewhere and people were, you know, killing him. Like literally like, Yo, why are you outside but this was before he knew anything happened. Now. He has refunded everybody who went to AstroWorld he is going to pay for the funeral services. But people are hitting him with lawsuits left and right. Even drake too right. So this as a as a brand makes me nervous. feel Me because and bear with me with this because I'm not. I'm not pointing fingers at all. Because there is footage of Travis Scott when he did see something. He stopped the show. He's like, hold on. Somebody go pick him up. He fainted. Everything like that. Now, we can't expect Travis Scott, who sees 1000s of people in the crowd. and sees people jumping and get hype. And his job is to be a performer. Right? Now, if he sees it cool, but his whole job was to perform now. This is where for me, I'm like, what do you do as a brand at this moment? Do you try to face it front on, right? Or do you lay low? Because if if, if you are too out there, it can be insensitive. If you aren't out there, it can be insensitive. This is a weird time, which then other brands are looking at him like, what are you about to do? Yeah. And of course, because of the death toll that some people and there's probably other brands that silently have removed themselves or just won't do further deals with him that are probably not just being talked about, because right now, the victims and have to be acknowledged more than the business side, right. But this type of stuff is super damaging. For any type of brand. Anything, and it's like, how did is a good question. How did rock and roll people deal with that? like, in the early times, like mosh pits and all that great stuff was huge, right? It wasn't until Travis Scott came back, like, got popular that I started hearing even about that from a minority standpoint. Right. So I'm like, Yeah, how sway.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, it's crazy. I actually find this whole thing. Just so obviously, terrible news. Yeah, but also a very wild situation. Right. Alright. So So first, to start off just from kind of the question that you posed out there, it's like, yo, what do you do as a brand or even a business in a situation like that? You know, do you? Do you go public? Do you just kind of disappear for a little bit? I think, if we've, we've seen this happen, you know, to some extent, previously, right with other people who've been quote, unquote, cancel or have been called out blackballed, whatever the case may be like, we saw Kaepernick one time, you know, when he'll his whole situation, when he took his stance, slowly branded, brands started separating themselves from him. But then we later found out that Nike, Nike was secretly kind of supporting or funding him throughout his entire process. And at the end of the day, we still have to keep into consideration that we do live in a capitalistic society. So while even if these moves are being made by the brands to separate themselves from the artists, or the person who's getting the bad press, they're really still doing it for their own benefit. I know that's not what we might want to hear. But that's still the truth. Now, what I would suggest to anyone who finds themselves in a situation like this, you don't want to disappear. And you don't want to be on Front Street. This is the time to give back in silence. Right? This is the time to really kind of work on making sure people are good or taking care of your being supportive. But you're not trying to reap the reward of a look what I'm doing, or you're trying to document every part of the move. Just do the work. Do good. Make sure people are good, like you said, don't appear to be insensitive, but really care for folks. And over time, it will spill over. We've seen it happen time and time again. That's the part of it now on the flip side, go in a totally different direction. And it's our podcast so I can share my opinion. Yes, go ahead. Thanks for listening. Right. So so the part of it that to me, it's still a little crazy. I had to go to the stats. Okay. All right. So you said obviously, this mosh pit culture is not something that just appeared suddenly it might have been maybe new to people in the minority community, but like you said rock and roll era, stuff like that, that's probably a normal thing. Now, when I look at this it said, in 2018, and 2019, every time the numbers nearly doubled. So in 2019, the two year the two day event, brought in nearly 50,000 tickets sold or 50 Top 50,000 people attended the event 2020 got cancelled, but we know he went bonkers on the virtual experience. We talked about that during his episode. Yeah. We did his episode and podcasts. And then this year, the two day event doubled again up to 100,000 people with the with the tickets also rocketing in terms of the price that was actually a more expensive event, but it's still doubled. Sold out in less than 30 minutes. So from from an I want to speak to it from an attendee standpoint, and I want to speak to it from a business standpoint, look, yall at the end of the day, you know, what you're getting yourself into. You know, like, to some extent, as an attendee going to an event like this, you should know what you're getting yourself into. Right? So so this is not the first time the injuries happened in 2019. There are also injuries that happened at that event, obviously, no one lost their lives, which again, not nothing to joke around with, or compared to anything like that. That's a super serious matter. But there is a trend here 50,000 tickets sold in 2019, three people injured before they can even enter because people broke through the arcades, and they kind of like rush to get into the event. 2021 comes around 100,000 tickets sold. Same thing happens. And it goes crazy. So in a way, it's it's premature to talk like in full detail about everything that's happening. But I do think it's important for us to speak about accountability. We ask people who love the art or attending the concerts or the performances, things of that nature, you got to hold ourselves responsible because you go to this, you shouldn't be expecting that as danger granted, the fact that, you know, people shouldn't be outside and that large of a degree or that launch of a group, given the virus and all that but whatever different story. But my question again, to hold the brand and the business accountable. I would also be curious to know, what did you know, Travis? Or or the people who helped him put on the concert? What did they do to take safety measures to accommodate the event, doubling in size once again. So those are some things that are an I know from like a business side is probably the most boring thing to talk about. But it's it's dose things that help you avoid situations like just what happened. But what am I referring to safety, compliance, right operations, they're boring as all get out. But if those things are not in check, an event like this happens, you risk losing literally everything you've ever built. So you know, I do think that there needs to be accountability on both sides. But obviously, I would still be curious to know until there's some more information revealed like, Yo, what happened here? Because there was obviously such a shortage in EMTs, and all that stuff. But yeah, it's it's crazy, man.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, I think to to go on with like, what did Travis and his team do? reports is saying that they did double up, right? It was more. There's more staff, more bodyguards, police, all that great stuff. But I still don't think you can really prepare for the energy and the actions of such an environment like that. Now, what I will say is, because of these events that have happened, now, this brings alert to other festivals, other concerts that are like this, because we're in this festival world now. Where everybody is outside everybody is like, in like, back to back with each other all on top of each other. So what I have I have been seeing in this in this past week is people, the artists had literally stopped their shows like yo, are y'all good. Everybody. Okay, when listen what y'all doing right? There we sit, we have to look out for each other Whoopty Woo, you know, because and I can only imagine what Travis Scott is going because I believe like the youngest that died was like a nine year old. Yeah. So it's like, though, you though, there was an increase in staff. And though, you know, it's not like the artists can only do so much. Right. It's like, like you said, people know what they're getting into. But how are you also making it safe? Yeah,  you know what im saying like, how are you How are you? Ensuring that is not going to out of hand. But now like, with, with these brands that are associated with Travis Scott, even sponsors of the event, like, how are they? What is going to happen? Moving forward? You know, is there going to be certain requirements, I would believe, because I do believe Travis Scott is going to bounce back. I don't think this is the end of him. I don't think, you know, there's not going to be concerts that are going to happen, because I believe this type of stuff affects every type of artists, and every type of sponsors for festivals and things like that. So will brands now have a requirement? Like to every 1000 people that you have, you have to show stats of how many staff people you have, you have to show me how many ambulances are on, you know deck EMT all this stuff, like, you have to show me that, and then I can give you this amount of money, or this amount of merch or this whatever, you know, um, I think it will start to get that serious, because there's no excuse of why people died at a concert. There's heat exhaustion, there's fainting, there's broken bones. but dying is a different, it's a different level, and it leaves and I think this just left a lot of people uneasy. They lost him a lot of money after giving back everybody's money going to deal with these, these lawsuits because he's gonna have to probably pay out something dealing with the funeral services, also providing mental health services for those who need it. This was more of an L than anything for for his brand. Yeah, for sure. From a financial standpoint, and just from an impact standpoint as well.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I would be almost shocked if he didn't have some form of insurance to cover a good chunk of the losses. Now the additional things that he's doing on his own. And that's another thing, folks, if you have a business, get insurance, seriously. I'm saying like, that's one of those things that like, that's important, again, is boring, get you some insurance, if you're going to do business, because this is the type of stuff that can wipe you out for good. So I do believe there's some insurance there that's helping him take care of the losses. But yeah, of course, the additional things like he's doing funeral, you know, providing support and all those things. I'm sure that's coming out of pocket, but it is a loss nonetheless. Now, I would be interested to see as they continue to investigate what other information comes out, because like I was watching some stuff, even on tick tok, I saw some reviews on tick tock of actually an EMT who was there. And he was like, kind of giving his account of it. And he talked about, there's something that wasn't adding up. Like it wasn't just people pushing one another and possibly stepping on them. Like there were people who had no pulse for over 10 minutes. So it's like, wait a second, there's something that's still not really discovered. So I think it's early in the investigation. And it'll be interesting to see like, yeah, what was that? You know, that missing element? What's that piece that we don't know about that caused Like you said something to go to the extreme of death?

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, we will. We'll see how everything unfolds. But definitely prayers to the families and everybody who has been affected by this situation. And shout out to the artists who are affected by this and are making a change instantly through their own shows. So yep. But let's get into some Metaverse talk. Okay. Talk some of this talk about some future talk, right? um in the past weeks. Facebook made a huge announcement saying we're We're going into the metaverse, we're actually change Our name to Meta see what they did there? See what they did there? Right? Um, and which is huge. We've gone over things like NFT's and talked a little bit about the metaverse and uh funny enough, I said one of my, my learning bucket for next year is to get all into the metaverse, I truly believe that anybody who is ahead of the game with that is going to be winning, right? Um, now, before I get too into, you know, the interview, and things like that, do you believe that we are going to head into a more introverted world? Now that the metaverse is starting to be a little bit more of a reality? And we're seeing things we've gotten so used to like filters. We've gotten used to some of the apps where if we want to buy something, we see how it is on the wall and things like that, you know, we've gotten a glimpse of what it can be. But with, you know, Facebook doing their presentation of their perspective on the metaverse and putting billions of dollars into it, like, do you feel that human interaction is gonna change a little bit? What are we doing?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I'm gonna call it introverts on the rise. I mean, like, not that more people are gonna become introverted. I do think it's an introvert move. Okay. But I'm really feeling like it's more of a convenience thing. Like, you know, how we've always talked about like, no doubt, paying for convenience every single time. Yes. So I think where it's headed is to really create a premium virtual convenience experience. I know that's a long phrase. Yes. But that's, that's, you know, saying like, that's where it's going. So that if you don't feel like going to a concert, sorry, for the example, because of maybe some of the concerns of people there. Well, you can just hologram yourself right into it. Feel the action without risking any dangers of really physically being there. So it's like, it's, it's probably more of an ambivert move, than it is an introvert move. It's like, oh, I want to be an extrovert. But I don't want to do the extrovert energy. So

Nicky Saunders  
is it. So here's why I said real quick, right. You don't get exhausted by people's energy. Because you're not around people. Like you're around people, but you're not like, it doesn't drain you because you could turn it off. Feel what I'm saying? Like

Mostafa Ghonim  
 Instead of going home, yeah, you just cut it off. That's crazy,

Nicky Saunders  
right? There's no long drive. There's no parking. Like, you don't have to deal with people at all. Like you just go. Hello. I want to go to Jay Z's concert, right? He may hit the metaverse, boom, I pick out my outfit, you know, boom, boom, boom by through NFT. That's crazy. It's gonna happen. Yes, you get it. Oh, you sent it to me that Nike is in the process of creating virtual wear. right the pattens. Yeah, right. So with that involved, I don't have to go to the store. We already don't go to the store to buy certain things. Right. Well, some still do. But we don't have to go to the store. We buy it up virtually. We have our fit. We go to the concert, we go to the event. And when I'm tired, I turn it off.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. For those of you listening who are like, What in the world are they talking about? This is not make believe. This is stuff. This is what the metaverse is going to represent, you know, in the near future. I mean, is it safe to say it's happening to some extent but not so you're just Yeah,

Nicky Saunders  
yeah. So you have the, the Facebook product, the Oculus, right? Yeah. Which now I really want to buy shout out to my mom. My mom was gonna buy it For me, and I was like, no, no. And now it's starting to be super popular. And I'm like, Man, I should have said yes. Um, but there is kind of like a preview, because you can have your own environment, your own office. We I think we spoke about it. I don't know if it was on the live where, or we wanted to speak about it, where they're doing kind of like a workplace. Like so now you get to yes, yes, virtually work with your co workers had do email projects, everything like that. So, um, that that is starting to happen. But we're saying all this because Mark Zuckerberg had an interview with Gary Vee. And he went truly in depth about the metaverse and there's two parts we want to talk about. The first one is why in the world, he changed the name and bringing up the topic of rebranding, because, of course, everybody has their own definition of what rebranding is. But what Facebook, aka meta is doing right now is truly rebranding. And then of course, um, what people think or not think about this whole Metaverse and how Mark Zuckerberg or however you want to dress my man, whatever works, right? how he feels about this. So let's get into the rebranding one real quick.

Mark Zuckerberg  
I think that's a key thing with this. rebrand to meta is it's not like now we're not focused on social media. I mean, that's gonna be the bread and butter of what we do. That's the the core thing. In our work to build. The Metaverse encompasses both building social experiences and building these future platforms like VR and AR. It's got to be both right? We have to weave all of these new technologies through these social apps. And you know, because you want to be able to jump into the metaverse and a 3d experience from your Instagram feed.

Mostafa Ghonim  
thats Bonkers bonkers, thats bonkers

Nicky Saunders  
so before we get all nerded out again about the metaverse and what's going to happen in the metaverse and what we're going to wear this just go with the Foundation have they changed their name to meta right. And the real reason why they did it is because like he said, they want to be known be known more than just a social media network. Right? Of course, they've dominated they bought Instagram, WhatsApp, all the like. They tried to get Snapchat, they probably had conversations with with Tik Tok, right. Um, but the how do I want to put this? The thing that through even Gary Vee for a loop was when they purchase Oculus, right, which for those people who don't know, is like their VR, wear right? You put these VR, not glasses, but like the mini computer, whatever it is. And you're in a whole different world. You get to exercise there, you get to work there, you get to play games. And, you know, they want to focus more on being the technology instead of being the social media network. So everything that has to do with this Metaverse everything, as far as connecting with people in a whole new universe, is what they want to concentrate on. And I don't know, most of you caught part of that interview where he was like, it sound like he wanted to redo the phones to smartphones. I don't know if you caught that. But it was like smartphones are actually very limited. And we had to play with the limitations. But what if we could create a hardware that there isn't as much limitations when it comes to the metaverse and the experience that you have with connecting with people? You know, so mark is getting very big on not only the software side of things, but the hardware part as well. And we've been seeing little clues with it once once again with Oculus, but another one with the deal with Ray Bran Ray bands, right where you could do ar filters and record and everything straight through that. And it's crazy to see but from a branding standpoint, it's very telling to say okay, if you were just creating a different product, maybe changing your name isn't needed, but you are going into a whole new world, what you what we knew you for is now going to be of a bigger purpose. And, of course, that's going to need a different name. What I will say is, do you believe that they're changing their name, because of all these legal situations that they're having as well. And if they leave it on Facebook, Facebook owns all these different products that it could actually do more hurt, then good to leave their name like that. Especially, we've we've talked about the, the whistleblower and that whole situation, when they had the data leak. There's a lot of things lately that Facebook has been facing. Facebook has been facing this crazy. But at the same time, they're going to be like, Oh, if we concentrate, which I'm not saying they never wanted to do that. But we're concentrating on the metaverse, let's just change our names. Let's protect Facebook, it's now a product of our entire company is not our whole company anymore. And, um, we're good on a legal standpoint, but as well, as our purpose standpoint, what do you think about that?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah no, for sure, I mean, it's got to be a part of the move. Right? Like, I think you're looking at one of probably the most intelligent moves in history when it comes to like rebranding and business, right? Because I'm going to use one of your favorite least favorite words. Okay, this is probably one of the greatest pivots, right? That you're going to see. Kind of like unfold over time. Yeah. Now, it's, I'll give him maybe 70%. Credit, right? And let me kind of break that down. So when when you look at it from just like a self standpoint, you're looking at someone who's recognizing his genius. And he's like, You know what, yes, I started here. But at the end of the day, I'm not so much just in love with social media, there are other things that I'm in love with, right. And it's more so based in tech. Yeah. So rather than just continuing to compete, and have to run up against companies who are trying to take the top spot in the social media space, I want to really play to my strength. So that's why I'm calling it one of the greatest pivots, probably in history, at least 70% of the way because he's now saying, all right, this is a great opportunity for me to walk away from all the bad publicity, or the legal action that I'm facing, right, all of the things that you mentioned, which are absolutely true, and step into a place that is actually more in line with my skill set and my talent, I want to be more of a tech company, I want to be more like Apple rather than a social media, or at least perceived as such. So let me do that. That sets me up for more success. I'm only calling it 70%. And we'll see how it unfolds. Because many of us have the idea. Many companies before have been early adopters in a marketplace to see where things are going to be pivot quickly, to make the adjustments, set yourself up, maybe set up shop and say, Okay, I'm going to call it meta, and almost work off of the whole Google thing. Right? Google, Google penetrated the market in such a way that when you're asking someone to look up something, and this is used as an obvious, obvious brand example, you don't say, hey, go on Bing, that you go set, you said, Go Google that right? Yes. So I think meta is setting themselves up in that realm. Now, what we have to see is that they actually execute and bring some of these ideas to life. All right, they're not the only one who's competing for that top spot. So yes, they may have the name, but we got to wait for them to see or we have to wait to see them now actually deliver on that promise, and bring some of these ideas and, and some of these technologies to life. So it's really, really cool. I'm excited to see what happens. And I've been really in tune with it. Because I think for people of our era people of our generation, I forget where I heard this, but they were talking about the unfolding or all the great kind of income earning opportunities that have come over the last 100 years right and more so with like, gold and the gold rush and we were in alive or whatever the case may be who knows what happened, but just talk about the internet, in many of the and they're calling this web 3.0 with web 1.0 and 2.0. Many of us lack knowledge, Interest and Money. Yeah, now all of that stuff, for the most part has kind of taken care of itself. Like, it's not incredibly difficult to acquire knowledge, we obviously have the interest because we're utilizing these technologies and some platforms to some extent. And even from a financial standpoint, we understand the idea of crowdfunding or lending or, you know, like, there's just a lot of ways to do it. So I think this is just the time. And the reason why I'm equally as geeked up about it as you are in this space is because I'm looking at it as an opportunity for us to be one of the early adopters who study and grow into, you know, a market that's shifting before. So we don't have to tell our kids man, if I would have put, you know, a couple $1,000 in meta, when I was my back in this day, it would have been 10 million, but it's like, you know, like, how many times are we gonna keep saying that? So yeah, I'm just, I'm just excited for it. But I do think, from from a pivot standpoint, great move, we just got to see it unfold now.

Nicky Saunders  
And then, the second part I want to talk about the interview is, when people have too many opinions, like, Facebook has gone through a lot, then Facebook has

Mostafa Ghonim  
the Presidential Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
And, and Facebook also has done a lot of changes, some are good, some are bad for the platform, you know. So what happens when you make a change? And people say whatever they want to say about it. So let's go to that part. 

Mark Zuckerberg  
Think that when you plant a flag and say that you're gonna go do something, you get haters, and criticisms, of course, you also get the people who actually care about that thing and want to make it happen, are attracted to the people who I think have the courage to go say, I'm going to go make this happen, even though it's really far off. So So I think that all these things are there, there are pros and cons to them. And there's a lot of complexity to manage. But I think that this is true, no matter what size organization, you're, you're you're at

Nicky Saunders  
go ahead moose, i want to hear your side of it

Mostafa Ghonim  
yeah, no, I loved it. I loved it. I mean, I think you make it clear to not just a community, but the world where you stand, right? Like, there's a lot of people who want to live in the gray area, or continue to be PC or politically correct not to offend part of the group or the other side of the group, as opposed to saying, you know, what, I'm going to take a hard stand and really do everything to be in line with what I'm believing or what I'm aiming for. So it becomes very clear, you don't have to waste your time with non believers or people who might still be interested in what you used to do. Because you're literally are no longer doing it. So the part that I was most interested in, or interested in with that clip, it's think about not even just the people you're trying to recruit, but the people who you currently have, there's no better way to tell your team, those in your family, whomever it is about the shift that you're about to make, or want to make, then making such a radical adjustment like that, right? Even from the way we identify ourselves, will go into change our identity, so that we can now start becoming this new thing that we're trying to create. So I just think it's a it's a, it's a very bold move. It's a great move, to show your people that you're about it. So sometimes, like if we're stuck, or we're wondering why people aren't cooperating, you know, it goes back to that example of children, right, like your children are not going to do what you tell them to do. They're going to do what they see you doing. So I think that's one of those things like, yeah, comparing it to children. But I think to some extent, our teams are going to follow in that regard. When they see us taking the heart stand like that. It's gonna be like, let me make the decision now. Am I Am I willing to go and try this? Or should I get off here? Because I'm not interested in that space? So from a team standpoint, yeah, I love that piece.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. I really liked this clip. Because the two reasons so there's more good than bad. That happens when you stand your ground is more like we concentrate too much on what maybe people may say about it, or how they feel about it in in their negative vibes, but at the same time, from a business standpoint, you are going to grab people without even knowing that really want to support it, not only from maybe a purchasing or marketing standpoint, but literally people Who want to enhance it? People who want to grow the company or grow that particular situation more than others, right? More than you going and putting an ad out to get that position filled. There may be people who are like, Yo, I love what you're doing. Let me be a part of it. I believe Facebook is so smart. Because any actually any social media platform is so smart, because they create the platform. And they're allowing third party people to or even, you know, employees or whatever, to create the apps that power the platform. So if we're talking about this whole Metaverse, and Oculus, or whatever their new glasses are going to be there now encouraging people to build within the metaverse, right. And they will provide the platform, and you can make a living off of it. And that's all really these social media platforms, or any type of platform really does. We may not understand it right away, like we're not going to understand this meta move for a little bit, right? Um, it this probably won't really form to its entirety for another five to 10 years, where we really fully understand it, right? But the fact that, you know, Facebook, aka meta is saying, I'm going to create the platform, and I'm going to stand strong on it. And it's going to attract the people who want to be a part of it. That's major, that's taking the energy off of the so called haters are so called negative situations, and just focusing on the true purpose and reason of why you created anything, you know, it? Yes, it's, it's kind of discouraging to hear so much doubt or hear people not truly support it. But what about the people who do? What about the people who champion it? What about the people who are risking? To do it with you? Why don't we concentrate on that a little bit more, rather than what the haters have to say, or what the haters or the doubters are going to do? Like, in, in the interview, he spoke about when he changed the timeline, you know, when it was on Facebook, all the you know, you can only post on people's walls and now became a true timeline, like, spoke about that he spoke about other changes, buying Instagram, and like, what, how did you feel when people said about this, or when they didn't think that was going to happen? It's like, Yo, they're going to say what they're going to say they're not going to understand that people are not going to understand when you disrupt the the universe, people are not going to understand when you were trying to make a change when they're so used to one particular way. And so it is it makes sense of where he stands with it where from a business standpoint and a company standpoint, he's can't pay attention. Because if I stay strong, I'm going to attract and recruit the people that I need that is going to fast forward my goals. So yeah, I love what he said about that. I really, um, that whole interview if you guys haven't seen it, go check it out morning. Gary Vee interrupts a whole lot. But it is. But if you watch Gary Vee interviews, you know, he do that. And there's there's no shade. It's just you you already know. So, um, but expect the metaverse to be a situation, a really big situation. I am dedicating next year to truly learning about it. There's you know, three buckets that I have. It's going to be Metaverse, YouTube and podcasting. Those are my three buckets, not necessarily in that order. But those are important. So learn about the metaverse start to get comfy about it, because this is what all we're going to be hearing. Heard crypto, we've heard NFT's and they all go around this thing called the metaverse. So pay attention people. And it would it wouldn't be us. It definitely wouldn't be me If we didn't talk about Kanye West, yay, yeezy, whatever you want to call it this man to some this genius to others what in the world is he doing? Right so he went on drink champs which we we've featured a few times on this podcast. Shout out to nori he does an amazing job, right? So Kanye was was on drink champs recently did a two part you know interview. And we spoke a little bit about the about it on the live show. And for me it's a typical Kanye interview, I believe he is so in tune, even though people think he's out of tune, like he is so in tune with what works. And what's going to get the attention that he strategically went on drink champs and spoke about certain topics. Of course, the Drake topic, of course, Jay Z topic, of course, the divorce. You know, he talks about everything that they talked about the Trump situation, like, everything that people wanted to know, and question him about, and called him crazy about he, he addressed it right now. It confused me a lot. I ain't gonna lie. There's a lot of parts, I was very confused. Um, but I'm not going to say that it's wrong in any kind of way. He just has a different type of mind. Now, there's just one part that out of all the two interviews stuck out to me and it doesn't even matter what he says anymore. Right? And going along with the theme of haters. A lot of people have called Kanye crazy. Clearly not on this show, because I wouldn't allow it. But, um, a lot of people have and well, here's his response. 

Kanye West  
you crazy? Oh, you run for president? Are you crazy? Are you sleeping? Are you crazy? Are you cut your hair different? You crazy? Are you wearing skinny jeans back in days? You crazy all us walking around with the Irma's bags. You crazy and I could do all these things and people and I would tell you like this for Britney Spears and for anybody. Okay, I'm crazy, but what yall going to do about it? All this way now. I'm not really crazy about here. See, I could save that crazy talk for somebody else. Y'all know.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Billy crazy.

Nicky Saunders  
Listen. keep this short. Say what you want about Kanye say what you want. When your accomplishments are louder than your haters, it really doesn't matter what they have to say. Okay. However many billions he is, he's a billionaire. Okay. He could do whatever he wants. He could say whatever he wants, and is perfectly fine. My man on the interview said he wants to buy America. Okay. Why not? You know, he's he said a lot of things and done a lot of things that we may agree or disagree about. And everybody will have their opinion on people who are truly successful, but we cannot knock is that Kanye is successful. Not in his own world. In society, if you are a billionaire, you are successful. Yeah. Okay, so it how do I want to put this when you have such an accomplishment, that no pun intended, trumps everything. Stay like stay strong to that. And granted, I don't think a lot of us are going to say we we nine Billy crazy. Not saying that right. But what I am saying there is something that we've accomplished that is bigger than what people are saying, right bigger than some of their doubts bigger than some of their perspectives on what we are doing. Who cares? who truly cares to him? He had a weird haircut. He wears whatever he wants to wear, has holes in his sweaters and sells it for $300 He, his sneakers continuously sell out and they don't look the greatest to some. You know? Who cares? When clearly his sneakers are selling out. His clothes are selling out. His music is still doing amazing numbers and amazing streams his businesses are in check. He's saying he wants to take the his company yay because he owns it and make it public. Who cares? Who Yeah, like you? I'm a flex on you. You say all these crazy now I didn't I didn't understand why he brought up Britney Spears but that was a different story. I'm not I dont really follow that part. But who cares? Like if he wants to wear a bag let him wear a bag with what I did find funny about the the interview is when he admitted that he wasn't like a backpack rapper. Did you? Did you catch that? Yeah, that was funny. It was like I'm sorry. I didn't kill nobody. I'm not a street person. But yeah, no backpack. I've never heard any of that music.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, no, that's hilarious. He look, I'm gonna go on record. And let me let me say this as a precursor, right. If anyone listened, and I listened to both of those interviews, I also listened to the Joe Rogan interview he the interview that he did with Joe Rogan, I believe that was a two part interview. Now, if anyone listened to this last interview, on drink champs and you did it, just to kinda like feel your desire for gossip. Please go back and listen to the context. The mindset, right? Forget about the gossip for a moment, like forget about who said what and what he did to who like, just listen to the context of the situation. Alright, because I and I said this on the live show. I myself walked away inspired. Alright, and I noticed the same thing happened to me had the same effect on me when I listened to the Joe Rogan interview. Because for me, I'm not so into the gossip part of it. I'm observing things like man this dude is free. Yes, free. He he doesn't have a care in the world, about what you're going to think about him. What you say what you've said, what you're gonna say, like he's truly free. So immediately, I had to ask myself a question like, Yo, what kind of inner work did he do to put himself in a position to talk that freely, and not fear the repercussions that might come from behind it because to some extent, which I know is true to some regard, which is a little bit of what you said, of course, is, you know, it's it's a it's a marketing, it's a publicity thing. Like he knows what he's gonna say. So he's doing that, but the other part of it is like dang, to just speak that freely. And and almost call out any and everybody without any fear or disregard there's there's a level of inner work a level of mastery that's, that's been done on the inside to allow you to move and shape that way and and see what others don't see. And not fear that they're not going to understand or call you out for one of my favorite parts about the interview, though, is when he talked about ice cube and Chappelle as one of the only other artists to really kind of stand for something and speak their truth. And not necessarily fear some of the people in the industry, yeah, but he was telling, like, kind of putting it out there as a general message, like, don't go for them come for me. You know, like, like saying, like, I want to be the leader of this, like free thought type thing. Like, don't just go and try and go after people who might, you know, maybe can't handle the pressure come from me. So I felt like that was a sign of true ownership and leadership in terms of like, let me kind of carry the weight for what's going to happen for them. And if and for those who listen interview, and you didnt and hear how much he's talking about community, how much he's talking about building an orphanage, a school, doing things to make sure that people are together. People are together. You know, he goes on to talk about and this will be the last thing because I don't want to spoil it for those who did didn't listen. But on the live we kind of joked about like, dang, I thought you were, you know what a true Christian or a believer, how are you cursing this much on the interview, but you took the cursing out of your, your, your album? And he goes on to say like no, because I want to distribute a type of music that people can play in their home around their children and not have to fear anything, they still get good entertaining music. So so he is at a point where he understands his responsibility. You know, so like, for me, I just, I don't know, I saw it from a much higher viewpoint. And I was like, No, I respect I appreciate it. And I'm actually inspired by kind of the inner work that somebody has to put in to arrive at that level and just speak freely. And it was it was low key funny too. I think his laugh is probably the funniest. But yeah no, it's uh, it's really it's really a good conversation.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. All the way. Really good interview. prepare to watch it twice, because you're going to get confused. You need to Yeah, yeah, I definitely would recommend watching it twice. But he is. And I think I posted something about it. Hold on, I think that was one of my last posts. I said, when creating, we all need that level of confidence. And I don't care like Kanye West. Because when you get to a point of just saying whatever you want to say, doing whatever you want to do, and still have your head high. And like that's, that's different. That's, I think that's what we all, you know, strive for is that, yeah, that type of freedom. Now, the people he talked about, they're just kind of piggybacking off of what he said. It's nothing original off their end. They're just responding. And but we're still spending more time watching what Kanye did. Even if they respond. Now. We're like, What are you talking about? We're going back to the interview. Oh, he did say that, you know, yeah. And it, say what you want. We all want that type of freedom, whether we're creating brands, businesses, just a creator of some sort. We just want that freedom. That's it. That's it. Um, on that note, do do us a favor, all our apple podcast people join the after show, okay, we got great conversations. After this, we're going to be talking about Will Smith. And everything that he has going on the book and the show, and, you know, we have a clip that we we're gonna discuss, we're going to discuss his being transparent him wanting to be a full content creator and in control of what he does. We're gonna talk about it. So join the after show Apple podcast people, it is part of the All Access squad. Also, this is powered by E cam. You see it on the on the screen for our viewers. This whole podcast is done through E cam. Okay, all of it. So if you want to try, E cam for 14 days for free. Just go to Nickyandmoose.com/ECam. And follow us on all social media platforms at Nicky and moose. its a whole vibe But moose Final words.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, if I can summarize this episode into one phrase, alright, because typically, I like to close these in a way to kind of like, give you a summary of the episode, but also give you something to be intentional about applying into your week, I kind of have i dont think we've ever broken down a final word, you can just go into it, pass it over and just skip past it. But yeah, it's those two things, right, a summary of the episode. But more importantly, like an intentional thing to kind of be like, Man, I should try that this week. So if I can summarize and give you a challenge at the same time is, don't be quick to reject what you don't understand. Don't be quick to reject what you don't understand because a lot of these people who are talking about changing the world, it's new to us. All right, but if things don't change, they never evolve. Take a Chance.