Episode 75 - How Opinions Impact Your Brand

Nicky Saunders  
whats poppin whats poppin whats poppin welcome to Nicky and moose im Nicky, that's moose. Whats up moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  
What up y'all?

Nicky Saunders  
And welcome to episode 75. We got a lot to talk about this week, like I say every week, but definitely this week, we're going to go over how to build a community, right? From hustle to passion. Screw your sneak peeks. Yes, exactly what I said. Sorry. And then the truth about why LeBron James loses. So moose how, how do we know about this?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Not LeBron. Oh, yeah, yeah, nah. Yeah, man. I'm excited for this one. I mean, new new platforms, new generations, different strategies and different styles. So yeah, let's dive into it.

Nicky Saunders  
Let’s get into this intro

Mostafa Ghonim  
two kids from Queens. Cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand. Yeah, I'm talking about Nicky and moose, bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force, or more importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know and love the most.

Nicky Saunders  
And shout out to all our audio and video listeners and viewers of this podcast we appreciate you always, always always. Now, I wanted to do something a little bit different. It is depending when you hear this Women's History Month, right. And we want to just to appreciate somebody throughout the month, you know, and Remy Ma. For those who don't know who Remy Ma is, she is a female rapper she was on all the way up. And many other ones but you probably know that one more recently with that show, right? But she started a female battle rap League, just I think past week or so called Chrome 23. And that's huge because in battle rap is mainly male dominated. So she actually it was airing on hot 97 To be honest with you. They have their own YouTube channel, but the full premiere was on hot 97 They had a full female card. Just appreciating people who can actually rap and write their own rhymes So shout out to Remy Ma for everything you've done in the culture especially doing this for the females just wanted to do that real quick. But um, moose. How are we feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man feeling pretty good. Pretty good. It's been an interesting week and definitely a very, very crazy night while the night that we're recording this, so there's been a it's been an interesting time but other than that, I can't complain things are good. And gearing up for the month of April, beginning of March, but I'm already gearing up for April because you know, I just think it's my birthday month. You know, I gotta I gotta kind of like, do stuff. 

Nicky Saunders  
 okay, all right. So um, okay, that was so descriptive. No I'm trying people people he gives he gives the mommy answers. I promise you Yeah, how are you? Good went out. Ah, it was crazy. It was very cool and and you know preparing for the future

Mostafa Ghonim  
I remember when I was younger my mom would always used to make fun of me. Hey, Mom, I'm I'm leaving were you going outside? Oh, you were one of those? Yeah, yeah. Oh really? You're not going out inside? Like yeah, outside.

Nicky Saunders  
Shout out to Mama moose. Oh, man that's I make fun of people like you, his mommy answers. Where’d you go outside where?

Mostafa Ghonim  
you know outside the street.

Nicky Saunders  
When are you coming back soon.

Mostafa Ghonim  
What you need all this info for though?

Nicky Saunders  
Moose is the detailed one out of the two of us. But yeah, that's crazy. That's the crazy part about this. You know? It's like

Mostafa Ghonim  
the personal story details don't I I just can't do those. Like, yeah, and I have some people in my life who are like, oh, and what did they say? Oh, and what did you say? And I'm like I just told you. It drives me crazy. I can't do the personal details. Like in a personal side, it's just like, Yo, just give you I'm saying, like, just the idea that it

Nicky Saunders  
works. This works. I just want to call one day people one day, I’ll get it. I'll get it out of him. I promise you one day. As far as for me, I'm chillin. Um, I realize I'm using for those people who follow me on Instagram. I understand the rick ross strategy now. I understand it. So if y'all remember in past episodes, that we covered with Rick Ross every morning he like highlights all the brands that he's associated with, right tags a mall, you see him everything, this then a third? Well, in the morning, I have my si mas, I do a show whoever got me something. So I'm wearing the hoodie, or the hat or whatever it is. And it's been getting people's attention. I can't talk too much about it. But there's some important people more I got their attention based off doing this strategy. So people if we give a little tip very early, promote, don't feel bad promoting, in your stories, whatever your platform is, don't feel bad, if the very first thing they see is you doing something what you normally do, wow, supporting the brands that support you. So I will I will just say that without going too, in detail, but still giving you somewhat details.

Mostafa Ghonim  
A lil some, some, little detail but not a lot more detailed than me, but it's a little detail. So that works

Nicky Saunders  
out to everybody. But let's get into this episode. Um, so I I was scrolling of course, on YouTube. And there is a very interesting individual named was Aiden Ross, right. Admin Ross Who is number 15 in the Twitch streams right, Now. The question that I always get is, How do you build a community? How do you build a community? How do you get people to stay with you be loyal followers connect with you and everything like that. And I'm realizing that these Twitch streamers have strong followings, like strong, not only that, they make a good amount of money. Like they can make, I think the individual that we're going to speak of, he makes like, 2 , 3 million off of streams and brand deals. So and now mind you, some people would like two to three mil that you guys cover 16 20 3 billion. Listen, this is now more realistic. Okay? Not everybody's going like two, three mil is still a lot just to do streaming, that is still a good amount of money. Sorry, he's not a Mr. Bese in all the other stuff. But he is in a creator house for those people don't know what a creator houses is literally other creators rented a house and are there just to create content, which I think is really cool, but I don't know if I would do that. But I think it's really cool. But he says some really dope about building a community that I wanted us to discuss. So let's, let's look at it.

Aiden Ross  
I'm actually not much of a competitor when it comes to you know, gaming, I'm more of an entertainer. You know, to me that's more important because you can establish a bigger community because, you know, you're connecting with them on a family basis when you're really just kind of attracting a viewership for competitiveness. When that game dies out, for example fortnight has dips, what's going to happen your viewers are going to die out as well. So how I look at it is when you when you're coming into this thing you got to like really like find out what you really want to do. And I think attract the community that loves you for you is way more important than you know a competitive community

Nicky Saunders  
So moose, are we going to see more of you so so we can love you to no? okay. See what I did?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Stretch, stretch, I see I see you doing that though. Like, I'm actually seeing a lot more of you. You know, I'm saying I'm starting to engage show behind the scenes actually talked a little bit more before it used to be just like, real quick snippets now was like, Alright, let me yeah, come Come on this walk with me, you know, like, it's starting to happen. So I'm seeing your transition, which is dope.

Nicky Saunders  
I appreciate that. Only only in stories, though. Only a story. Yeah. Okay. But ok  what's your take on this?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, no, I mean, for one, and I think you're you opened up with it, the idea of like, the whole world of Twitch, like, I'm still often fascinated by how big platforms outside of Instagram and maybe Facebook or Twitter that people are using from time to time, that outside of those platforms there are. There's something like Twitch that is huge. And it has a completely new audience tik tok, same thing, completely new audience that for a while people didn't pay attention to, but it is in line with people style. So I think of Twitch as almost like long form content, because people on there are gamers, they're streaming for hours at a time, and they're able to showcase whatever parts of their personality or talents while they're doing something that has a mutual interest. So the cool thing about a platform like Twitch and you know, using that to stimulate a community or grow a community is again, one, you're bonding over a common interest, which is typically the game or whatever that case is. And then you're able to again, still infuse your personality or your talent, to get people to build that bond with you, which is almost like a two for one. So really interesting on how that happens. And I think it's a reminder for a lot of us who maybe didn't grow up with either gaming or online gaming at that level, that there is some space for business in there. Because, you know, when you sent the name over, I started kind of looking up looking more information about him up. And it's like, okay, there's a lot of artists that are now utilizing this platform or his platform, specifically, because they're saying, or he recognizes it, if you're someone who's about to release a song, but you haven't been as relevant. And my stream is so like, popular right now, then it does make sense for you to come down to my stream, and maybe talk about your song. So yeah, it gives me credit, because now people are starting to see me with a lot of rappers or people in the music industry, but it's helping people in the music industry. So that's crazy, where we typically haven't seen stuff like that in the past that there you can gain benefit, although you technically have more influence, right? By getting onto these platforms, where there's more eyes, because of whatever reason, it could be trust, you know, like, like we said, likes or interest and mutual like and respect. So I'm already there, and I'm listening, and then you say, Hey, check this person out, okay, I've rock with you. So because Nikki said it, I'm definitely gonna check this person out. Because I know, you know, she wouldn't put me on to somebody who, whatever is not an expert or a master in their space. So really cool concept. But more specifically, just like the space of Twitch, although it can seem foreign to some really good for others, especially if you rock with that long form content and you're just comfortable building in that space.

Nicky Saunders  
That's good that's good, I got a different thought process on this one, like, I love so from a gaming aspect. Of course, some people are going to feel disconnected because it's like, Yo, first off, I don't game two, I'm not competitive, right. But I want to break it down into like a thought process of in his industry, which is normally talking about video games and being competitive in there. Think about your own industry, and just you being in your expertise only. Right. And let's say for for instance, if I was only to speak about Instagram, and that was my bread and butter, right. And I don't necessarily show any type of personality. I don't necessarily talk to people. You follow me because of the expertise. Now Instagram goes down. Now Instagram is not relevant. That means everything about me, based on an online situation is done. So that's how he was looking at it, where it's like, okay, the Once the game is over, if I go from a competitive standpoint, then I'm going to take a dip, like, I got to find another game that I can be super competitive in. And then people rock with me just for that game. And I'll probably have a different community, nothing's too stable. But with him, leading with personality, and him being open to how he regularly acts, now, you can look him up. There's some crazy stuff that he says he does not condoning it in any kind of way. But what I'm saying is, people love him for him. He even got into a, what was it called, um, like a pump and dump, crypto scheme, right, one of those tokens that he promoted, he said, Yo, this is a good amount of money, I'm gonna promote, it ends up being a scam. And he could have gotten super cancelled, and wasn't because of his strong community. So I look at it like, what are some of the things that we can do, to show more of us to attract people to like us? So whatever happens in our industry, whether the dips, or the highs, maybe the mid level, they're still there. And we want to grow community. But are we really making the effort to grow community, like posting is not just growing community, going live is not growing a community doing a podcast and art situation is not going to grow? Community is going to grow listeners, but a communities people who are engaged people who are going, Hey, we're going to go live over here, come chat with us, and they actually chat with us, you know, for those people who are like, A, who do their own personal brands, and they're doing the streaming and they're doing Patreon and stuff like that. You have people who follow you where you go. So the the lesson that I definitely, I got out of it was be more personal, because that will last longer than probably your expertise.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like, big, which makes sense. It's like, some of these concepts are just trends. Right? And, and any trend is bound to go out of style, and something else is going to take its place, you know, so So that definitely, definitely makes sense. Yeah, I caught on to the personality piece, especially, or not the personalities, but the gaming part of it, because you're right, it's like, there was a time where I think fortnight had the most active players, you know, in the world. And now, I mean, I'm sure it's popular, but like, I remember it more. And I think, what drove the popularity there was like, I remember a lot of the young kids doing, like the dances and it was like, oh, yeah, that's a fortnight dance. So it's like, oh, I didn't even know, you know, like that. But one thing drove the other. But you're right now it's like, who do you know who's really on like, I'm sure there are like some rock solid people who are always gonna rock with it. But even even the gaming companies recognize this because from time to time, they'll release newer games. So like, I remember, same thing happened with Call of Duty from, you know, same things like call duty and then they just keep releasing new games, where if you were really, really tied in with the first one, then whatever, like, the New Years, yeah, is open with that. So interesting.

Nicky Saunders  
I like it. Now, a shout out to the people who are doing things they don't want to do for a check. Okay, let's start it off with that. So there was this round table talk with Rick Ross, wiz khalifa , Little Wayne and DJ Khalid. And was very drawn to it because it actually like triggered me to my little nine to five days, right? To where, why am I doing this? Yet, I'm working so hard to work on my passion, like, work on where I want to be, but I'm also doing this nine to five or I'm also doing these tasks that I have no business necessarily doing And khalid addressed it in a really dope way. When it comes to, like, you gotta hustle to find your passion. So let's look at that.

DJ Khaled  
You know, if you think about in business sometimes that, you know, you got to do things you might not be in love with, but just define the business that you want to be in. So, you know, we want everybody to be self made. And at the same time, encourage everybody, yo, sometimes, you gotta hustle hustle to fund what you love. I think that’s important.

Nicky Saunders  
So, um, now hustle can be the hustle, however you think of, um, I'm going to speak on my experience where I was working at a bank. Right. And I was making sure that that was all done, all the tasks were done, done there, even though I wasn't happy. But it allowed me to get get the money to travel to all of these events. Like, every it seemed like every single weekend, I was going here and going there. I could take off because I had certain days off, right, that I was still get paid for. But I was questioning, like, Yo, how much longer can I do this? Right? Like, I'm exhausted like, I don't I want to be here. Like, can I be here already? Right? Why do I have to do both. But then I look back at it. And I'm like, yo, that was so smart. Because if you don't necessarily have a stream of income, to balance out that passion and bounce out where you want to be, you're going to be considered one of those like struggling artists kind of vibe, and you move more on survival mode than necessarily passion. So I could have made early mistakes as far as trying to charge to like too much, or trying to charge anything. And close some of the doors that I had, right at the time. Because I was on survival mode. And people were just like, oh, maybe she just needs a check or whatever where I was, look, I got a six figure job over here. Let me let me move some funds around for this particular time, spend the night time working on this. And as it started to make sense to make the move to what I want to do, then I did it with no stress, with no real Oh my god. But did I love every second of it? Absolutely not. And even still afterwards, I still had to do a lot of things that I did not want to do that I had no business doing. And but it was all to get to a certain not to a certain position, but get my time back after a while. So it's like we all now you will get to a position where it's like, oh, ain't doing that. No, I'm good. All right, trust me, I will not move for a check, or I will not move off of something I don't need to do anymore. I I've realized there's a balance of as long as you have something you don't really want to do all the rest of the things that you do is things you want to do. You don't continuously pick stuff that you don't want to do. Like there's one that is like acceptable. Like I I got to keep this. This is like the house. Right? But everything else. Oh, there's a lot of nose coming. And I'm doing exactly what I want to do over here, because I'm not going to continuously not do what I want in just for whatever.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Mm hmm. Yes. Interesting. And I think this is a this is like for everybody who figures out that what they love to do is not the thing that they make money from. Mm hmm. So like, you can figure out how to make some money or make money in something that you don't love to do. And so you're kind of like stuck like Oh, Okay, but I can go here. And like you said, live the struggling art artists life. Yeah. And I actually know how to make money here, but I just don't love this. Yeah. So what, like, you're left with a very interesting situation. But I'm a big fan of that. And, you know, I spoke on this a few times, like, that was my life in my story. When I left Wall Street, and went into hospitality, I knew how to make money in hospitality, because I had already been there. Like, I started in hospitality, like any high school kid looking for, like a little weekend job to just make some side money. So I had a lot of experience in the hospitality industry. And then I got exposed and learned about not exposed like, they found something out on me, but I got exposed to, you know, like, one little principle, I was like, oh, that's the benefit for these types of businesses. And I just had the infrastructure to start it. So you know, I started a company and I called it the dream supply. So like, I started the company with the vision of this is the thing that's going to supply the dream, like I initially started with that mission, you know, and, and I wanted it to be catchy.

Nicky Saunders  
That was catchy. Like what you did the filming thing? Like, do you try to aim it? With a target in mind? That's so dope get that needs to be a topic? Yeah, naming your brand with the purpose in mind. Oh, that's so fine. Okay, I didn't try to

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I try to I, I've always thought of the names tied to the purpose, not so much the product, like of what it does, like that business was in hospitality, it was a staffing agency, you would never have thought the dream supply has anything to do with staffing for hospitality. But for me, and and and what I knew about the people of the industry, who would work as part of the staff of the company, I knew it was actors, musicians, creators, and artists, even aspiring entrepreneurs, who are a part of what they call the gig economy, because of the flexibility that it gives them to go off and go on auditions, or they might book a show on Broadway or a movie and leave for a couple of months. But also, that is inconsistent. But that is their dream. So you work you work in this type of economy, or in this type of industry to fund your dream. So I was like, Oh, the dream supply. And it's going to be that for me. And then. So yeah, like, I'm a big component of that, what I'm realizing now is, that never really stops, even when you're doing what you love to do. Like, you're still always funding something else. And, and it could be like, you might go from something that you don't like, and you're hustling to fund what you love, and then you find what you love. And then you're using that to find maybe fun, something else that you love, or just the next chapter. Because I think as you mature, you start to learn more about other parts of you that you're like, man, but I do enjoy this, or I have skills and talents and desires to make an impact over here. So that that never really stopped. So I do think it's important to highlight that piece as well, that the funding process never stops, you could fund your own marketing, you could fund the next chapter of your life, you know, like, and you'll be surprised how many times that process which really is a sacrifice, because you are working harder than you need to survive given your current status or like where you're at. It ends up saving you guaranteed down the line like so when I did exactly what you talked about, use the dream supply to fund what we're doing now. The dead end up saving me when COVID hit because hospitality industry, that whole event industry got completely shut down in New York for well over a year when COVID. So had I never funded that next chapter. It's like there's no telling what could have happened, you know, at that moment, so yeah, I think it's your we're always constantly funding you, you don't get to a part where you just say like, Okay, I'm done. If you do, I think that's a big mistake.

Nicky Saunders  
Right? And this and I hope No one , like, thinks we're not saying jump, like don't jump if that's your vibe, please, by all means because some for some, that works out very well. Right. So we're just going more on a kind of a strategic route because even when you do jump, right, and you start in that process of monetizing and whether your client base or whatever, there's always going to be that One client that you really don't want to work with. But it pays this, that's still the same thing, you still are doing what you want. But there's maybe a task, or whatever. So likely, if you look at Khalad, right, he was, he was broke at one time, he was making $100 a week, one time DJing all these different places, going to, to the radio, doing multiple fill ins, what we see of Khalad now wasn't always that he had to do a lot of things just for $1 here, a few $100 here in order to get where he's at right now. And so it's always the process. But we think that, okay, when we see people on top, they don't they don't necessarily need funding no more like they're good. Well, probably nine out of 10 times, those people of top have a lot of brand deals that fund them got a lot of investors that fund them, right, they don't necessarily need to do the manual funding anymore. But there's always capital that's always needed.

Mostafa Ghonim  
100% 100 Yeah, your next chapter is always going to be more expensive than the one that you're currently at. Always, always, like, your next chapter is still gonna feel like, dang, I just jumped from one to 10 I got to jump to 100 now, right? It's like, yep, that's why it's the next chapter. And I think that's the difference between like, true entrepreneurs, and, you know, people who got marketed to be in the space, like you got sold a dream to enter entrepreneurship, versus those who are true entrepreneurs, they, they like they do business without the fear part. And in all transparently, I feel like I'm just entering that phase now. Like, I'm now recognizing, like, oh, yeah, take this all away. I can build it again tomorrow. Like, I'm actually confident. Well, first of all, like, you didn't just say what you just said.

Nicky Saunders  
First off, is take everything away. Yes. Yeah.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Well, I mean, knock on wood, you know, I'm saying, I'm not saying like, God, you know, don't,

Nicky Saunders  
don't get away. I'm good.

Mostafa Ghonim  
I'm done. Yeah, don't serve me that curveball. But I'm just saying, like, you get to a point where you're doing business without the fear, and wanting and wanting to hoard everything that you achieve, because you're like, Well, I don't know, if I like if I spend the 299. I just don't know that one is coming back. But when you recognize that there are, it's, it's the intuition, it's division, it's the ability to product, develop business, develop, market, all of these things, it's those characteristics that have gotten you to the place that you're at. You stop calling it or you stop giving credit to other things that are not the reason for your success. And that's important. So I think like that's the part where you ideally want to get to an entrepreneurship, or even as a content creator, someone building a brand. You're not attributing to your your success to Oh my God, thank God for Instagrams algorithms. And if anything happens, like, I don't know that I can ever come back to that. It's like no, like, God forbid, even if it were to go away, you can come back because you made that it didn't make you. And that's that's like one of the big discoveries that I think all of us as creators and entrepreneurs need to arrive at, and just be so good with ourselves that we recognize it's not other factors that made us it's us using these things that have created what we have. And God forbid, should anything happen. We can recycle, refurbish, rebuild, and come back

Nicky Saunders  
again, got nothing to say if they don't want that was good. That was in the show notes.

Mostafa Ghonim  
We're ending early today guys know.

Nicky Saunders  
We're here. We're still here. Um, okay, so Oh, super side. Maybe commercial break, whatever. I already know. Some people are gonna listen to this and be like, yeah, knock on break down the documentary. The third one came out. Yeah. Now break it down. So I'm just going to let you know. We are going to break it down. In the next after show. So many lessons. We're just going to dedicate a whole hour To show so all our apple podcast people you're welcome. Okay, that's, that's, that's what we're going to do. Um, so, back to it though. Okay. This one changed a lot of I wouldn't say my whole perspective normally Dude, my whole right. But a lot of my perspective on testing out the market. Okay, testing out what your audience wants. So, Tyler, The Creator, did a recent interview thing go on his shoe that he's coming out with a shoe and converse, right?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, well, Congress. Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
So he was talking about, you know, some insecurities that people have, let's put it that way, some insecurities that I was like, Oh, I never thought of it like this. So let's, let's hear what he says

Tyler the Creator   
is one of the like, most obvious forms of like insecurity to me, when artists put a snippet up of a song on the internet, and wait to see how people react to it. And let the let the crowdsourcing of opinion dictate. If they're going to put that out. How do you not like your own song enough to put it out? Like when we like, Yo sneak peek? And it's a sample sample that's not going to come out for nine months. And then like if people were like, ooh, this ain't it. And we weren't but it's like, bro, have confidence in your like

Mostafa Ghonim  
shout out to my guys. laughs That was hilarious. I don't know

Nicky Saunders  
I died. I died. The first time I heard that. I was like we not gonna talk about this. We're not gonna talk about this laugh. Everybody thought that was okay. Okay, cool

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah, that's that that's Pac Man that and I could kind of see like, the resistance to it, like the way why why not? You know, like, why not do it? And, huh. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I can see two sides of the story, though. I will say this, like, one side of it is, and we know the truth. Like, you, you know, you and why you're doing what you're doing. Like, are you doing it to test the market and see, okay, do they like it? Do they approve of me? Like, I'm i Okay, well, I still be accepted. more you do it because you're like not, I want to let you know something's coming. And I'm actually doing it to build anticipation. I'm trying to gear you in and prep you okay, that that is a marketing strategy. But but if you're doing it, and behind it, there's the facade or there's that. Okay, there really is insecurity, then it's like, Well, man, I'm not I'm not doing it. Right. You know, like, I'm trying to do it do the right thing, but for the wrong reasons, or, and it's not really hitting like that. So that's very interesting. I am curious to hear what you got to say about that, though, because I know. And I actually got this from you, like, you're constantly testing. I used to think like, there's a testing season you test once, and then you would, but it's like, no, you can always be testing. Absolutely. So. So yeah, yeah. Once you um,

Nicky Saunders  
I'm so torn by this. So. And I think my trigger word is insecurity, right? Like, because I do believe certain brands do things because they are insecure. Right? Now, from a flip side, when you are a brand that normally puts out one thing, and then is trying to see if the audience is going to feel this new thing. To call it an insecurity is I'm like I get it. Like, you should feel so confident like yo, bump that, but that's almost on a selfish tip as well. It's like, you're not considerate of the user experience. You're only saying, yo, this is what I want its going to work. I'm going to make it work and it is what it is. Now I'm big on allowing the people to be part of the process. Now does that make it an insecurity? Because I want people part of the process? No, there It's all a strategic vibe, because as you're part of the process, now you're going to want to see, go through and say, Yo, I, I got this because I was part of the whole thing. So I think I'm just very torn with how he approached that, because I really enjoy putting people in the process. Now. Is there a little, I wouldn't say doubt, but I just want to be fully, like, aware of what the audience wants, and not forced them one way or the other. But then I'm like, But you are the brand, you're supposed to lead them into what is the new norm, so you put it out, and give it your full effort. And there's going to be people who will listen to who will buy it, who would rock with it or not. But if you don't feel fully confident in it, of course, there's going to be some that's not even going to rock with it based off the feeling of you not really, you're seeing if this works, you seeing if it doesn't, right, but there's a whole strategy of let me give you let me build the hype up. So I'll tell you something's coming out, I may show you something that is coming out, not necessarily for approval, I don't necessarily need feedback. But I definitely need to show you that you better be on standby, because this is coming out. And as I show you these particular things, you're going to get very, very curious. And curiosity creates clicks. And so if I can create that curiosity throughout this campaign, when it does release, you're going to at least click on it to understand what it is. So depending on your strategy, it could be an insecurity. But on the other side, it could be a whole way of launching something that has no desire of feedback, or doubt. It just is to let you know, this is coming. So I'm not like I get it and I domy like it's I'm still torn. Yeah, cuz I want to agree with him.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, no, I mean, he makes a point. But I think it's only valid for an innovator to like, think about it like this. It's like, whoever's listening to this, and probably us as well. We got to ask ourselves, are we creators, or we innovators? So a creator is doing exactly what you mentioned, I'm creating things for my people, my tribe, my community, because I'm hearing their pain. And I'm finding a unique method to maybe resolve it or I'm hearing what's happening, or they're, they've found what I'm doing. And they have found some level of solution through an innovator and I could see where this is becomes different with maybe somebody like a Steve Jobs or even a Kanye, Elon Musk, it's like, if you don't have my eyesight, you can't see my vision. So if I'm creating something that is like nothing that's out there, and I'm testing it to see what you think about it, then of course, you don't think is crazy. Like the Kanye boots, those like space ship type boots, and they do look a little crazy, right like the oversized, even when they when him And Vergil started getting into streetwear, like at a time I'm sure people were like, Yo, that's not in everyone is really in line more with European fashion, like slimfit stuff are tighter clothing. And they started bringing back the baggy style, but in a different look. So I think innovators, they probably will be in more trouble if they're looking for acceptance or approval, because you're trying to introduce something that is outside of the box or outside of the cultural norm, that if you're looking for approval, you might have people come you're almost giving people the right to botch down your vision, without it without it, putting it into the space and you with your creativity and your style, you bring it to life and you show the use and the function of and how we can be different. But I think yeah, that's got to be the only variable that I can really think of but if you are someone who is a creator for the people, if you literally are doing it for them, then then you're right. Like you do want to see like, Hey, are you liking this? Like is this helpful for you? Or your creative process is actually backwards, meaning You listen first, and based on what what they're saying you create with that, where the innovator is like, Hmm, what do I see that people don't see? Or how can I reimagine this to be different? And I'm doing that, and then I'm putting it out. So it's like, that's one of the only variables that I can think about that can make what he's saying. valid. And I think he would fit that mold somebody who's more of an innovator than just a creator.

Nicky Saunders  
Facts. These are facts. I would love to hear your, your feedback, not because I'm insecure, not because this isn't secure, because we would honestly just know your feedback. Yeah, me. Yeah, I'm just

Mostafa Ghonim  
kind of interesting. I've never thought about it that way. For real because just like, I'm, I would think I'm more of a creator. Like, I don't know that I'm true. And I'm okay with that. Like, I don't know that I imagined things outside of things that they've never been done before. Like, I just don't live life that way. I mean, more of a practical person's like, oh, but we could do that differently. And maybe that could be a different solution. But I'm never you know, so yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. Shout out to tyler the creator for always making us think a little different. Yeah. Different. I met at it, because last time we made this thing. So he constantly makes us things. Now. Let's talk about the great Lebron James. Why does my man lose? like this? Let's just talk about it. Let's just talk about it. Um, he recently was a, there was a new episode of the shop, which is on YouTube Full Episodes really dope. And they were talking about why LeBron James lost when he went to Miami and lost that championship. And he took full ownership. But it was very interesting to hear what happened. So let's listen to it.

LeBron James  
You can't really give a about what people say no more. Because everybody gonna critique everything that you do, no matter what you do, they will creep into your mind, no matter if you believe it or not, it's wasted energy is wasted energy. My first year, in Miami I was down here. Like I was literally, like, wanted to prove everybody wrong. And I like literally lost myself in the moment. I lost myself. Yeah. And I got all the way to the championship that year, and loss. And the reason I knew we were afterwards, I was like, we lost because I wasn't I wasn’t even myself.

Nicky Saunders  
So, this is interesting to me, because I'm petty, right? So my motivation is, sometimes not all the time. So I'm working on it people I'm working on it is sometimes the doubt that people have of me, or the ability of something to happen. I'm going to be like, Nope, I'm gonna show you. Right. But I never thought of it in a standpoint that it's so much in your head, that is actually the obstacle of you really accomplishing anything that you want to do or proving them right, because you're so much involved with what people are saying that you completely lose focus. And I, I like that he said, that that was all me that that loss, why we didn't win the finals. I know exactly what happened, it was because I allowed people to get in my head and not win, because of my team, not win. Because we made it this far. I'm trying to win to prove them wrong. And that shouldn't be the purpose, what is the real purpose of why you're doing what you do? And continue to stay focus on that. What people are going to say is always going to fluctuate, they can like you one day they could hate you the next then they love you. And then they want you to die the next time a very dramatic but is true. It's very true. So with with that in mind, you can't depend on unstable support. You can't depend on an unstable motivation. Like the purpose has to always be in play. And once he like figured out like, Yo, I'm not I can't listen to y’all . I got to do this because of a bigger reason. And then started to make sense anyone championships in Miami after that first year was a little rough. But we, it's so and I'm not going to play like it's, it's a, it's easier said than done to say Yo, don't listen to people. Like, especially going back on what Tyler said where, you know, bumped a sneak peek and everything like that. But we are in a audience experience. Like, kind of vibe like some of our brands. Yes. So some of our brands are created around that now. In order to sell tickets, sometimes you got to, you, you got to cater to the audience. Right now, when it comes to a sports standpoint, the only way you can cater to them if you continue to win. Right? So is that it's not like? No, it kind of is. So in boxing. If we think about Floyd, if we think about bum Floyd, if we think about Logan, Paul, if we think about the Paul brothers, some of us are going and buying Pay Per View or going over there to see if they lose. Right. But it's because they continue to win is why now we're going to this to purchase to see if they lose. So you still have to continue to win. And understand. As you grow, there are going to be haters, there are going to be people who are not going to agree with what you do and what you say and how you go about it. That's as you in the beginning is sweet because you get all the support. Then you grow. And then you start getting support from people you don't know that's a different feeling. But eventually, you're going to get to a point where it's like yeah, I don't I don't really rock with you. I don't like I don't like how you do this. I don't think you can do this. That's never been done. Boo. What all this stuff, right? And it's more of yo was was to goal what are we doing? Why are we here? Because I'm going to continue as I succeed to get more of these. So I I can't listen. But how do I close out? Not listening from the beginning. So it could help me at the end?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah. This is this is I got I'm always almost a fascinated, but I'm very interested in this topic, right? Because, like I like what you're saying, right? To some extent I'm hearing make. Make the opinion, the fuel, not the goal. Right. So it's like I can't make I can't lose sight of my goal and make people's opinion, or even the desire to prove them wrong. Become the goal. Because now I'm not working toward my goal. I'm working to their opinion of me. Mm hmm. So like, I've never forget probably one of my favorite bars that I heard, E said, and it was at this year's 120 where he said, You you're trying to show nobodies that you're somebody. And I was like, dang. Like, here we are working so hard trying to prove to a bunch of nobodies that we're somebody. And this like, for what, like they just don't even it don't even add up or make sense. So my philosophy is the only place opposites attract is in science. It doesn't, it doesn't happen in business. It doesn't happen when it comes to your goals or what you're after, what you need in, in business is alignment, right? So so you want to carry yourself in a way that's in it that's in alignment with the thing that you're after. So this concept of oh, I'm going to use negative energy to help me produce positive outcomes. I've never, I've never seen that actually work. There are very few people who use the noise and can make it turn out to be something great. And again, as I'm listening to you talk I'm like, yo, it actually makes sense because you're not saying you make the noise the goal, you know, I know just uptake some some fuel from it, but I'm still focused on the goal. Yeah. You know, so it's like, okay, that that I think that makes more sense. But yeah, And we we got to figure out like, man, what is it about? Other people's opinions of us become so attractive. Like they were like, you know, like so he into to satisfy it to prove them wrong or to like be liked by him. That's that's That’scancerous

Nicky Saunders  
I still think I still think that comes from how we did school. Now what I mean by that is school and social media and even just feedback in general is something that was instilled in us. We did something we handed it in, we got feedback, whether it was a grade, whether it was markups, whatever it is, and we've been now that makes us stronger of a person, but to see that this is the difference. This is in supposedly expert because the teachers an expert of this is what you did, right? This is what you did wrong, right. But we've always had that, like we do something, we seek approval, or a grading system of how we did. Right, we give it to our parents. Here's our report cards, we seek approval of what we did we go to school, unless you were in private Catholic school, like I was, you go you wear certain clothes you seek for approval. Right? Or you get clowned. Okay. So now with social media, the way you see for approvals, how many followers you have, how many people are engaging. I mean, how many looking at your stuff, how many people are buying your stuff, that still I submit something, and I'm looking for approval? Right, I'm looking for feedback. Now we're looking from a from an athletic standpoint, we make it to the league, we're seeking for approval from the coaches, we're seeking for approval from the fans to buy our stuff we're seeking. Like, it almost seems as if the things we do is always seeking for approval. Now it is a very strong individual, which is why not everybody can get this, of killing the noise of always needing approval and always needing feedback. And just doing what you are supposed to do, or what you feel is the next wave of things. And go about it. Because you are confident enough that you can do it. It goes based off what LeBron was kind of saying it goes based off what Tyler was kind of saying, like, there still needs to be a level of confidence. That Okay, it'd be great if you, you liked it, but it doesn't sway me one way or the other because I understand the goal and the results that I need to get. So this is great. If you do like it. This is great. If you're on my team, this is great. If you support the project. This is great if you support the team, but I don't need you. And that's very hard for some people. Because since we were young, we were seeking for approval.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the that's the when you tie when you tie, you know, into the route. Therefore back it's like yeah, we were literally trained to have somebody say, yes. Okay, good job. You know, like that's, that's that's crazy.

Nicky Saunders  
Just a thought. Just a thought. Anyways, make sure you follow us everywhere at this is that this is this me and Nicky and moose right at Nicky and moose everywhere go to Nickyandmoose.com for the whole catalogue of the podcasts and videos as well. All in one central location. Moose most final words.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, man. I mean, but the thing that's been on my mind a lot is the greatest gift you can give yourself when you don't have money is a rich mind. Because you don't need money to produce a rich mind of which mine is produced through your choices through your habits and your decisions.