Episode 72 - Independent VS Corporate: What Is Your Strategy

Nicky Saunders  
what’s poppin whats poppin whats poppin. Welcome To Nicky and moose. I'm Nicky That's moose What's up moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  
What up y'all?

Nicky Saunders  
And welcome to episode 72. And this one's called independent versus corporate. What is your strategy? We got a lot to talk about since we didn't talk last week with each other. So of course, we're going to talk about Snoop Dogg buying death row what this means right? We're going to talk about peloton laying off like 2800 people that's crazy. And then we're going to talk about this whole podcast breakup, but the business side of things right so we're gonna have part two of the im athlete and then we may talk some more business talk about the machine should I be on the machine? Should I not be on the machine? Things like that? Moose How are we feeling about this episode?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I like I like the idea of being able to speak to both sides of a situation you know, like this. Do you still get it out of the mud, stay out of the mud, just run with it on your own? Do you partner collaborate join a bigger brand. There's some pros and cons to both and I think it's time to really just break this down once and for all.

Nicky Saunders  
Let's get into this intro

Jaymie Jordan  
two kids from Queens cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand Yeah, I'm talking about Nicky and moose, bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force, and more importantly, stories behind the people and brands that you know and love the most.

Nicky Saunders  
And you know what time it is the review of the week now we've been getting so much love on YouTube. I got to bring this one up I send this to moose. He was like oh yeah, this is fire. This one says from J Mac TV. I swear this is one of the most impressive podcasts I've ever seen on building a influence on social media. So motivating in my young content creation career subscribed and definitely will be watching your content. And then one more always of the chart. You both always bring the best and thank you for Anthony O'Neill and Nikki and moose life changing information to be a better you. I think it's a hot plate hot plate hot plate hot plate. Hammer and wrench hammer wrench DNA, hearts and hundreds.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Good Emoji read out.

Nicky Saunders  
So some light but a shout out to everybody who leaves us a review on Apple podcast on pod chasers. Everybody who leaves us a comment on all our social media, especially YouTube because we read them and we love them. Um, and if you're listening on audio or watching on TV, or your phone or laptop, we appreciate you. Welcome to the Nicky and moose. Moose How are we feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, feeling pretty good. Feeling pretty good. I had a very eventful last couple of days. As you all know from my setup on the live show, I was out in Florida visiting the in laws. So we came back midweek Wednesday, which is crazy because today is we're recording this on Saturday, but I feel like a lot has happened since I got back Wednesday. So it was cool. But you know, really, really productive last couple of days today. I spent some time on the mountain. I was actually snowboarding. I took some videos maybe I'll send it if it's I don't know. It was it was a blast. Oh no. Yeah. No. Yeah. It was like I don't know. I’m from Egypt. I know I’m not suppose to be doing that either. But you know

Nicky Saunders  
y'all can do that in the sand.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah. So it's no different situation on on snow and ice. But now it's fun. I got into it when I was younger. One of my really good friends his older brother was was like big on boarding and ended up taking a snowboarder with him one time and I kind of just hung with it. So 10 or 15 years later, I'm still at it. But it's beautiful man just to be the I don't know, I think I think you would enjoy it just like from the meditating vibe. Like, it's so, so cool to be out in the woods on the mountain and super chill. Yes, it's fun.

Nicky Saunders  
That's cool. All right. Listen at I will uh, I'll just agree with you. I don't know if I'll ever do it, but I just agree with you even me

Mostafa Ghonim  
Snow. Snow tubing.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, yeah, no, I don't see. But maybe, maybe one day. I'm not gonna say never. I'm not never gonna say never. But you know, just don't see that in my future in the next couple of weeks. That's what I'll say. next couple of weeks. Definitely dont see that. Feel Me?Um, for me. Um, I got to I guess we made a big stink to Cox cable. When? When I said it on the podcast, because we ash, I got like, two, three calls from higher ups. DMS oh my god, no, Nicky, you okay was happening. The Whoo. They send somebody out, right? Got a whole new line. To to upstairs. They were like, Okay, we see something wrong. This feels like it got water in it. So we're just gonna run a whole new line, tap into your wall. We're gonna make sure. Like, we see that, um, you know, it was down for so long. So we're gonna actually give you credit for this amount of time. So they made it right. I will say that they made it right. So shout out. Shout out to Cox cable. Me. So I can respect that. I can respect that. If you try to make it right. Social Media is powerful. Yeah. That was like it was like, I was like, there's nothing wrong with it. Now. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it now, but let us look into it. Then. They found something. You know, I don't know if it was set up a new wire. Yeah. They said, um, what do they say? They said it a lot of it was on their end for January, because for those who don't know, I was I was down and out majority of January. And I was like Low Key depressed. I was like, oh my god my life. What am I gonna do? What can I do? Outside of made you think rethink life, like what am I supposed to do outside of online? Like how do i i kind of figure out different ways to make money. It was so weird, but I'll say I'll say shout out to them for now for now. But let's get into this episode. And the very, very first part we're going to talk about is Snoop Dogg acquiring death row. Now the crazy thing for those who watch wallo and Gilly shout out to them in the millions where it was, I messed up. I messed it up, I apologize. But, um, they had Snoop Dogg. And he said this about hopefully, having death row one day,

Snoop Dogg  
or death row should be in my hands. I should be running just like I'm in position at Def Jam. Def row means more to me because I helped create that, right? They should give me that. Let me run it, put the merchandise out, put the music all over the world. Find some new Acts, some new West Coast acts because there's so many acts. Just look at it like this. If they gave it to me five years ago, I would have roddy rich Ty Dolla Sign yg, anything coming out the West would have been on death row.

Nicky Saunders  
Which would have been crazy, by the way. But this is what he said about his new acquisition. Snoop Dogg now owner, owner of Death Row Records said I am thrilled and appreciative of the opportunity to acquire the iconic and culturally significant Death Row record brand, which has immense untapped future value. It feels good to have ownership of the label I was part of at the beginning of my career and as one of the founding members this is an extremely meaningful moment. For me. I would like to personally thank the team at Blackstone, MNRK and especially Dave k, because I'm not going to say that full name, who worked collaboratively with me over several months to make this exciting homecoming a reality I'm looking forward to building the next chapter of Death row records.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, like the light that has fire, you know, like, I think I think the first lesson that immediately stands out to me, whenever I think of something like that, that happens. And it's always a great advantage for you who are looking to be a part of a team, or to even invest in a business, whenever you see a founding member, take back control, in most cases, not all cases, but in most cases, it is a good sign. Because founding members or people who are a part of the core group, they understand the ins and outs of an industry and have a business model in a way that nobody else does. So when I, when I see something like this happening, for one, there is a personal connection, like it's something that he obviously cares about, he helped create it, he was a part of it, there is some history there. So he's coming back to it. And then of course, you look at where he's at today with the influence and just the status that he still has amongst the hip hop community, still super relevant, still very respected in the game amongst a wide variety of artists. So I think he is going to bring a lot of value to that, because it almost makes it I want to say hot again, it makes it you know, relevant again, because it's like, oh, Snoop was a part of it. And I'm sure a lot of artists are going to want to get behind that. Because he being an artist, he knows maybe the do's and don'ts that can help someone's music career. So for me, whenever I see something like that, I think of it from a business standpoint, like this could be a good sign because you're getting someone who understands the ins and outs in a way that nobody else does. That's now in control of it. So you can you can expect some good things from it.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, that is super iconic for the simple fact that he started there. And it's funny because he recently we covered it, the position that he did in Def Jam was like a creative director. Right. And I think what is great and I don't know if this was planned, was he probably created that in a very iconic record label in itself. Def Jam is huge in order to prepare for this acquisition. Right? I don't think this was just spontaneous. Def not Def Jam, Death row went bankrupt years ago. And so that knew that Blackstone had them just chillin for a bit. Nothing really happening with it. So I think one Snoop got some, you know, some experience truly being an exec and, and a huge role in record label. I think he was like, Yo, I could do this. Right, I could do this for the West west coast. So I appreciate you know what he's doing. The whole ownership look where I started, I'm actually now owning now. I'm low key, I want to know what suge thinks but that's, you know, that's neither here nor there. That's neither here nor there. I think this is a great way of what we knew of death row can now continue with a more positive light You feel me with a more positive light, because there's some craziness that that happened with death row. But I think this is a good look for it. Congrats to Snoop, you know, huge congrats, because I think that's as big for him because he's the owner in a lot of things season.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Now, he's doing this thing right now is that and, and just to speak to our title to this, in a way is like a reversal of someone, or a concept that was corporate being brought back into independent so like, there are some examples on the show today. Well, you see people go from independent to corporate vice versa. I think this is a connection to that, too. It's like it was corporate it was a part of a bigger conglomerate, now was brought back and it takes to independent format. So it happens both ways.

Nicky Saunders  
Now, another recent thing that caught my attention, and normally we wouldn't talk about this, but this is very interesting. So peloton has been on the news for a little bit because they pretty much laid off about 2800 jobs like crazy right? However, there is a particular job that is non negotiable, the not getting rid of and it is the popular instructors that we see all over social media that we see if you are part of the peloton family, which I know I am. Those lovely instructors that kick our butts. They're getting paid 500k a year And I found this interesting because this is this is a product like business, right? peloton has what is it the bikes treadmills? apparel that this everything fitness, right? Yeah. But the fact that this faceless would would have been a faceless company because of what they sell, has now found a way to put personality and like real human beings that people are really like love and like hate at the same time because they're pushing them to like almost throwing up. But like it's a family based off these particular instructors that they're saying, oh, we can't get we can't get rid of you. You guys are the reason one of the main reasons why this is still going now, and you would know this more, as far as you know, there's been talks of like Amazon and Nike picking up peloton too because of whatever moose could probably talk about that. But what I like about this is this is a model for those who are trying to figure out what's going to work if I am not the face of my company, if I am not the one in front of the camera. What do I do? Find people who could truly represent your brand, and that people connect with like, people connect with these instructors. They see them all the time. It's like, okay, where where is this person? Where's that person? What are they doing? This is humans connecting with humans. Yeah, so I ain't surprised that peloton is saying, Here's a bag. Hello 500k. Because of you, people are buying more peloton stuff. People are wearing the gear because you wore it in the class today. And you talked about how comfortable the pants were. And you did this that in a third there's they have true influencers in their own company that work for them. So my my whole thing is like, how do you create influencers in your business?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, that's good. That is good. I think you hit it right on the head once you kind of close with that right there, that they have influencers who are working for them, and they help promote them. That's the that's the part that I enjoy about peloton. I think from a business model standpoint, there are some pros and cons to what's happening to them recently. But from a business model standpoint, they remind me of Tesla in the fitness industry. So if they can, if they can raise more money or just keep cash flowing through their doors, they're going to be okay, I don't think this they're too big and too popular, and have too much social influence to get wiped out completely. Yes, there are some cutbacks and drawbacks, but for those who own a Tesla, my brother in law got a Tesla. So I just learned about this recently, when we were down to Florida. I drove it for the first time really cool car. But I was like, oh, so what about the self driving feature? And he was like, oh, no, that's extra. What do you mean that's extra? I said no. So So you you pay for the car. And the self driving feature is a subscription. It's a subscription, you can pay for it upfront $12,000 as a lifetime, or you can pay I think $300 monthly and get the self driving feature as a subscription. So if you look at what exactly would you look at peloton you pay for the bike up front, but there is subscription and other things that you can purchase, right to keep revenues flowing through the door. So they have brand ambassadors like you said influencers, these social icons, that they help pumped them on social media because they end up attracting more people to the outdoors. I am willing to bet I don't know this for sure there's actually a guy who when I was doing the boxing classes for a minute he ended up leaving the studio when there's now a trainer for peloton, and he's introducing box into their platform. Yeah,

Nicky Saunders  
I did the boxing joints. Oh, did

Mostafa Ghonim  
you? Yeah, his name is rad. He's actually I believe he's Dominican too.

Nicky Saunders  
I saw a dominican guy!

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, that's him. That's him. Really cool guy. Really cool guy. He just got on there I think a couple months ago, which is dope. But But my point is I'm willing I'm willing to bet that the contracts to some extent have some level of exclusivity, which to say like hey, okay, so or non compete, and we're gonna pump these resources into you, we're gonna pay you good money so you don't have to go out and do this on your own. But as a result, just bring back these people here. So I think it's a it's a great concept. I mean, obviously unfortunate that that many people are getting laid off at a time and it's it's it's that portion of it gives me like a little clubhouse type of vibe. You know, because clubhouse during the pandemic was booming. Oh yeah, absolutely. And I don't think people saw or expected such a quick decline. Even with peloton as as gyms open more options became available. People want change that led to a decline but again, I think it's a very, like innovative and kind of refreshing concept. I don't think we'll get away so hopefully they'll bring some of those people back but it'll be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.

Nicky Saunders  
Hey, I like to I do I do the boxing classes I do. The funny thing is I do all the other classes but the biking ones, I do like the scenic routes with the biking with the biking stuff. And then I do like the meditation I do the boxing they have a dancing one they have the strength one they have all these other ones I was like why am I only subjecting myself to this one that hurts my butt I'm not doing you don't want to do it.

Mostafa Ghonim  
That's a fire question though just just for that for this segment at least

Nicky Saunders  
do Why are you doing everything else but what

Mostafa Ghonim  
not not not the don't do classes that hurt you but what not that that's not that question

Nicky Saunders  
Wait, what

Mostafa Ghonim  
no, no, no, I'm talking about the original question you you pose which was Do you have influencers in your business? I'm like now that right? Not not not the not the Botox page.

Nicky Saunders  
You know, okay, so they're low key trifling to because you can't use their programs unless you subscribe. I don't think there's like a free situation. Like you have to use the bike you have to do this subscription. 

Mostafa Ghonim  
so do you see from a revenue standpoint, what they're doing those the same thing? Like I said, it's Tesla, you pay for the bike? And that's it. So pretty, pretty. 1000 bucks.

Nicky Saunders  
There's no yet the peloton is disgusting. But, um, but the bike at least, I don't know about the treadmill. But, um, there's no one time thing because like, Tesla has to I've looked it up it was like, 10 12k Right, right, right. Because I was like, I already figured out my blue little Tesla that was gonna get. I was like, yep, self driving, I don't want to drive boom, right? I don't care how much it is. Right? And then I look that was like, I may care i may care Actually, may care a little bit, just a bit. Um, but there's, there's no option of like, boom, buy the bike and have the programs for the rest of your life. Nine that you have to pay subscription. So that's that's a that's a force subscription model but I met at it because if not, you spend all that money for no reason. But the classes are good. I will say that their classes are dope. I'm really really dope, especially their meditation. I've been on this meditation vibe. Like for a few months now. I See You, its a thing its a  thing but shout out to peloton. Alright, so, for some reason you guys love when we talk about podcast that breakup, podcast networks that break up whatever it is, yeah. Love breakups. So we're going To do a part two of the I am athlete breakup because there has been more information that surfaced that we found should be talked about from a business side, right? The Chad and Fred and Ryan, the new pivot podcast, right, they actually did a interview talking about? Well, I'll just let you guys listen to it. For us,

Pivot Podcast  
For Us, it was a blessing in disguise to be able to join together with Ryan, create a company, create our show. And really just try and push the culture, the biggest thing that Fred said was create a company, right? So with that, we were able to create a company and learn from our previous failures.

Nicky Saunders  
So now, if we can remember that episode, where we originally talked about the I am athlete breakup, we, both mammals assume that the business just wasn't right. So the way they had explained it before, was the, I can't even say the word the foundation. I try to say the word and I messed up just like Fred in that interview. Um, the foundation had just changed, right, what they originally came in for, just not. And they didn't do the paperwork, right. Like, well, they didn't do the paperwork at all, it was more like, let's come together. And we'll do this on, you know, while this happens, but the success happened so quick, that they couldn't get on exact terms that they wanted to. And it just fell off. Right, cool. So now, what they're saying now is, Oh, no. If we do this, let's get the paperwork. Let's do this. Now. The thing is, that's one side of things, right? Seeing how we have an idea. And we want, you know, we just want it to work and see how it is and then we could figure out the business later, I found another side of things where we have a top podcast as well, not us. Wallow and Gilly. Right? And how they started their podcast, they started their idea and see how that works.

Wallow and Gilly  
Well done. I got the attorney LLC, filed the trademark. And I said, Listen, I'm gonna need you to sign this tomorrow, we're going to set this account up. And its on, it was on from there. We got different parts to play. I'm never going to do. Gil is a dude who go into his dm and say Yo, what's up, we pulling up. And like, Alright, come on. Let's do we want to you know, we went in, I'm gonna do all of it. Okay, but we got to make sure we get this, we won't be here. I got the mics I got, um, that we're not in competition. We both financially cool. We learn about stuff. So it's like, that's what makes us feel good about us. And he knows his role. And I know my room, y'all 5050

Nicky Saunders  
Big difference.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, for sure. For sure. But here's, here's my thing about the first one, and I like this one, what comes to my mind first, it's like, that wasn't an original idea. You get me like, B Marshall had come up with this grand vision around creating a lifestyle brand for athletes. Take the podcast that's like locker room talk, you bring, you know, former players around to discuss and have these types of talks. You guys go through some turmoil, and you try to copy the idea, but do it your way. So it's like, you don't seem like I don't I'm not even knocking the move. I'm just saying I don't I don't know that. The same passion or the reason that be Marshall started with exists here. You're just doing it as a way of like, okay, let me just do that. Because there's something to do. So it's like that, that that to me? I don't know. I think it's questionable. It's not an original idea. It was just like a pivot move. And a, a copy type situation. I don't know that. That to me is

Nicky Saunders  
well, I'll say this. Um, that idea for that podcast period isn't necessarily original. We offline. We talked about the players tribute right products. Right, right. Right, for sure. Yeah. And so that particular podcast is called knuckleheads that had Derek Jeter on it. Right. For those people who may be lost. We watched an interview that was going to possibly be on the fire. guess about Derek Jeter? Right? And that's another like, okay athletes talking to other athletes about the game and life after you know? So I don't know if necessarily that idea is super original, but there's different perspectives with each podcast there's a different perspective with the one that we saw with Derek Jeter, there's a different perspective with I am athlete, there's a different perspective with the pivot, you know, and the crazy thing is, when we're looking at the comments that we got on our videos, there's a lot of people that was like, Yo, I love both. I'm not gonna not watch one or the other. Like they both are pretty good. So I was like, to the original thing

Mostafa Ghonim  
its interesting because well, the players Tribune with Derek Jeter actually started off as like almost a legitimate media company. Yeah, so they just jumped on to podcasting now. So if you think about it, like the Kevin Durant when he made his decision to leave, I think Oklahoma and go to Golden State or when he left Golden State, one of the one of the transitions. He wrote a letter it was like an open letter. So the players Tribute was like, it was almost like a ESPN online type thing where people were just writing letters or, you know, you would speak directly to the fans, and you would release it through the through there. So they're just introducing podcasting. Now, what I'm actually kind of surprised to and I, as I'm, as I'm seeing the next level, because the new the new, the new level of podcasting, I think is media companies. Right? People are recognizing that you don't just want to be a podcast, you've got to develop a media company. I'm surprised B Marshall didn't take a month or his way, like under his media company and give them the park like so you want to you don't want to do with this on. I am athlete anymore. You don't want it to be this way. So Why don't y'all get your show under this media company? Huh? You know, I'm saying like that. I'm surprised that happened, because it would have it would have been a win win. It's like, okay, I'll still continue to put the efforts you won't go. And then it's still under the network or still under the media company.

Nicky Saunders  
I will say they probably scorn from business side.

Mostafa Ghonim  
For sure. For sure.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, they probably scorn and I can understand it. But

Mostafa Ghonim  
yeah. What What's your thoughts on the wallow and gilly I mean, they had obviously an explosive growth.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. Killing it. I think what, what I love about them is every move they make is a legit move. Like, they, like you said, logo, trademark, we're under contract, it is what it is. Boom. And we know our roles. I think that was another one of the biggest problems that we've seen in these podcasts, breakups between Joe and them. As far as mall embroidery, and then with I am athlete, we're not really sure. If they knew their roles, they even admitted Chad and Fred was like, Yo, we ended up just being talent after a while. And so once things are legit, and you know your roles, there's like, really, you can't stop that. Like, I know why I'm here. Boom. I'm like wallow said, I'm the one that's looking at the analytics. I know what to do. I know what not to do. for that. I got the mics, I got the cameras. Boom, Gilly making sure the relationships, you were getting all these guests from this person, that person like, he's taking care of that I'm taking care of this. And with that the podcast has been successful. There isn't a hiccup there isn't necessarily a disagreement, because we're both on the same page. I don't touch your stuff, you don't touch my stuff. And together, it makes a whole thing. Now, another thing I heard was, we're not competitive. Right? So when roles arent picked like roles aren't defined, you tend to be competitive because maybe one may get more shine than the other. Right? And if you don't really understand the value of each other, that could then cause some clashing. So I'm I'm looking at Like, okay, if you're going to model from end, it doesn't necessarily have to be podcast. So I don't want everybody to get stuck on the podcast. Situation is more of people getting together for an idea to create business because podcasting is a business, right? So instead of just being, okay, I love you, we're great. You, I like you, your perspective is cool. Let's talk this out, or a podcast, or let's create a business to get let's do something collaborative, right? Instead of just going off of love and heart and everything like that, okay, if you serious about this, let's get this business straight. Because we're in a world that this could blow up in 2.3 seconds. This can go and then now we're, we're given a gwuop of, of opportunities and money. And one may feel more entitled to have it than the other yet, this is an equal situation, as far as you, you hear this name, you see these people, or you talk about this particular media situation, you know, these people are involved. So this is this is just a lesson of like, okay, we've seen multiple breakups. But here's somebody, here's two people who's doing it right, who's killing it, who's done multiple brand deals, crazy amount of money has has a crazy million dollar deal with barstool and is possibly going to re up on it. So why not learn from that? Like, yeah, that's, that's, um, like, like, why is there so many breakups? If there are there is a model that is working?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, and I'm sure I've mentioned it multiple times on the history of our podcast, but role awareness is one of the most important elements of any successful collaboration. Yeah, if there's any blurred vision around the two, like you said, it can create competitiveness, one person may feel like they're not appreciated or valued. There's all of this back and forth, you having to do things twice, because you're trying to prove your worth when it's like, oh, man, I got that. So I don't know, is like, a role awareness is one of the most important elements I can't stress it enough. I can't stress enough. Everybody go read the book by Simon Sinek. What's the name of the book? Oh, start with why start with why great book, great book, but he talks about in that book, how every why person needs a how person and it shows you the importance of having a difficult like, difference in your role or, or a variety in your role or specialty in your role, meaning there's someone who is maybe the visionary the why he comes up with the mission or the idea, ensure that you don't just be you're not just an idea person, you have different responsibilities when the business is out of ideas stage, but there's also a how person who's operational, he he thinks through process and how things should be done. So it shows you that every successful company and then I love the book, because he gives you different examples of it. Every why person has a how person which is exactly that role awareness separation of what we're doing together, so that we can actually succeed so yeah, super important.

Nicky Saunders  
That's good. Um, but now let's, let's let's talk about independent versus corporate, the title of this podcast okay. So, let me set this up. We did alive and got a lot of great feedback about whether to join a machine or not in machine when we say that is more like a platform, a network, corporate situation, whatever your machine is, right? Bigger, a bigger situation than what you are independently. Right now. We have two examples, of course, from a music standpoint, from a person who signed to a record label and the air experience in a negative way, and then another person with who joined the record label, but for more of a chess move than necessarily just the situation of, you know, I've signed to record label. Both had very amazing independent runs, aka who I'm talking about. One is Papoose. And one is Benny the butcher from the group Grizelda. Right now, papoose was just recently on drink champs, and talked about his experience about being on a record label. Let's look into that.

Papoose  
He said he had $1.5 billion deal, let's be it yet the deal. Marketing, they had nothing to do with the 1.5. Right? Everybody thought, oh, pap is up, Pat has never had a record deal. I was getting show money, I was getting feature money. And I was touring. Now I signed a record deal in 2007. So basically, I was independent that whole time getting money, right? Once I signed a record deal, you have people telling you have individuals, and white shirts and suits telling you, Oh, you don't need to make that record like that you need to make it like this. I look, I lost, I lost all creative control at that point.

Nicky Saunders  
 So that's one version of it. And now Benny The butcher, Benny The Butcher, signed to Def Jam, after huge success of independence. And this is what he said about why he did it.

Benny The Butcher  
is that I need to be in these rooms, I can get in certain rooms. And I know I'm saying now certain people got to shake my hand, you know, I'm saying, Well, this is me got so much that I'm trying to do that these moves. These moves don't even be about the music, a lot of times it'd be about my next move. And I'm saying so he's chess, not checkers. That's a fact. And to be honest with you, I love everybody at Def Jam

Mostafa Ghonim  
 Literally two polar opposites of the equation. But in my mind when you're thinking about independent, or joining a larger platform, a larger corporation and just a bigger brand in general, three, three things come to mind. And if you're if you're in this stage right now, whether you have aspirations of joining, if you're independent, if you want to work back, you got to ask yourself three questions. Number one, like who are you? Right? Who are you? Are you someone who can get up and dedicate as much energy to your own ideas as you do to somebody else's ideas. Because a big part of the challenge here is there are a lot of people who take this leap into entrepreneurship, but they get up on time for their job. But on Saturday and Sunday, when they say they're going to dedicate time to work on their business or their side hustle. They oversleep or they sleep in. So it's like, Oh, so you can wake up short on sleep tired, maybe not even happy or excited to go to this job or do this work. But you wake up to that on time. But when it comes to you, you can't you can't even get up on time for you. So you got to know yourself first, right? If you're someone that vice versus its like, Man, I struggle going somewhere else I sleep I'm always late. But when it's time to work on my own stuff, I'm fired up. Like I'm ready, I'll stay up late. I'll wake up early, then you're definitely more of that independent person. So that's the first part you got to figure out like, who are you? Number two, What is your end goal look like? Right? Like what is your end goal look like? Is your end goal gonna be in completely in by itself? Or does it need something that you don't have right now? Like, like, I love where he mentioned it right? Like, I need to be in the room. I need to see what's happening. And we made an example to what Snoop Dogg Got that creative director row. Was it with Def Jam? I think two Mm hmm. Yep. Got that roll with them learned got his experiences of what the big corporations do took it back out. Now Might, most likely will utilize those resources in his independent, you know, opportunity. So it's like what what does your future look like? And then lastly, you got to know who you're going to bed with. And that's a tough part. And that's probably the biggest part because everybody in the beginning, everybody in the beginning is going to greet you with open arms, they don't pull the chair out for you, and go give you a clean you know, this this and I think it'll show you the best parts of themselves because they're trying to get you on board. But once they recruit to recruit you to the team, and the day to day stuff starts kicking up you just never know what's happening. So I think between those three things in that last one, most importantly, you that should help you to make a decision just from a personal standpoint, there are some other variables that I'm sure you can speak to next from, you know, a brand name or even a business standpoint, but this is the personal standpoint, you got it, you got to ask yourself those three questions have figured those three things out before you even make the jump to either one of those concepts.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, I think more what I love about these two different examples, how I saw it was one just went literally for the music, right? One match with the machine thinking this is going to get what I have right now more popping than it is where then the other situation with Benny was, this is not about the music. This is about, I have a lot of things I want to do. After music, I need to get with these connects, I need to get with these particular people and know them. From a movie standpoint, from a merchandise standpoint, from a marketing standpoint, from a sports standpoint, this is not about music, this is about widening my network for my next moves. Right? So while one was thinking about the moves at the moment, what the other one was thinking about the moves in the future. Right? So I look at that now as Okay, from the most part for our brands, we could do it ourselves, we're going to hit a certain ceiling. At a certain point. This is where we may assess if we need to collaborate with something of a machine, whether it's a network, whether it's a label, however, whatever your machine is, right? However, are we only going in it for what we're doing right now? Or can we collaborate with somebody who can help us with the right now, but with the future as well. So, you know, example of like us. Okay, cool. Can you help us with the podcast now? But can you help us create something bigger, and get us in the right, in the right rooms with somebody who can go more towards a company building a company building a merchandise lane or something to whatever effect that we may want? Right? And these are thoughts that you have to have, when you are building your brand. And when you are in that business talk is of what can you do for me more than this right now? Yeah. Because that matters to me. Like now is cool, like, I've done pretty good by myself. Like, if you have a phone, and you have social media, you could get pretty far depending on you know, your, your consistency and your drive. Right. And if you know how to shake hands and kiss babies with the right people. Dolo Solo, you can do very well. But now, when we're thinking about global when we're thinking, not even global, when we're thinking nationwide to global status, who can we connect with? But what can what is happening afterwards? Because I believe now that, you know, we've, we've been a part of multiple brands. This isn't going to last the whole time, every brand, a department have the brand or the brand itself dies. And sometimes we try to keep it on life support longer than it's supposed to. Yeah. Now, if we was to instantly think, one two steps ahead. We could better prepare for that transition of like, okay, cool. We could do this for so long. That has a shelf life of this, like in our refer to, you know, the Derek Jeter interview that we saw, which just go watch it. Okay, just go watch it. Sorry. You can't really reference it. But what they were talking about was athletes have a shelf life and are not really sure what to do afterwards. Right. Um, I could refer that the same thing as as military. military has a shelf life of 20 years possibly. And then its What, you know, being on the top of the industry of whatever industry you are, that has a shelf life, and then what? You know. So it's the then what when we're talking about collaborating with a big corporation with a huge machine, it is the then what that we should be really having these, you know, these contracts about and these meetings and in these particular rooms, it's the then what that we're setting ourselves up for more than, Hey, how can you help me with right now? And if we could think of more than right now? I think collaborating with higher ups than that we wouldn't necessarily be in the same rooms with would make more sense. Then. Here, have everything have all of it in like how Papoose said, Yo, my creative control was gone?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why I just can't see past the importance of like, the person we don't like when you think of stuff start a team or join a team? Yeah, I kind of think of I think of independent versus corporate as the same concept independent. You start your own team. Corporate you join a team. Yeah. To some extent right with some variables in there. Yeah. And the reason why is because like the example that comes to my mind is, of course, Troy signign with EYL.

Nicky Saunders  
Yep. Shout out to them. Right. Did you see that the big that 19 keys situation?

Mostafa Ghonim  
That's what's up, That's really cool. Yeah, that's, that's cool. Cool. And, and this, like, what's unique is, they strike a balance, and they do both, to reap the benefits of both sides. But I feel like they really know themselves enough to know, like, I know who we are. But I'm gonna continue to use the advantages of what collaboration does bring or what corporations and quote unquote, joining a team does bring to keep etching me closer to the next step to the next step. But always with a backdoor open, like I'm joining your team, but I know that the back door is open for me that I can leave at any moment. Or if not, in any moment, because the contract is in place, I can leave at least when the contract expires, I have the opportunity to reevaluate my opportunity and leave. But But But are you that type of person. And that's why I'm just saying like, at some point, we just got to have that honest question with ourselves. Are you that type of person who can who can truly drive direction, can can can see, what's the best move? What's the best alternative? You have, you have the determination and the desire to go through even the harder ways and, and maybe not take some of the benefits of the handouts or the shortcuts that are handed to you through collaborations and corporations, or you someone who's just like, either, either for leveraged reasons, or just because it's not in your style to have to do so many different parts that you're like, ah, you know, what, why stress myself out? I'm gonna just, I'm gonna just say, at least, like, if that's your person, then I think you need to do what is best for your person not so much based on the perception of what independent versus corporate may seem, because some brands do a phenomenal job of making corporate seem very sexy. Nipsey Huddle Nipsey Huddle boy its late. Nipsey Huddle, Nipsey Hussle Nipsey did a phenomenal job of making independent really, really attractive. But when that timeline ran out, then he saw that the next door was through a deal or a record day but he did take it by so I'm just saying like I think I think there is a there is pros and cons to both Yeah, which one you should do you as a listener? Which one you should do you who was watching think of you and have an honest conversation with yourself and it's not you know, who am I? Am I that person who can like I said, carry innovate go and enjoys the the hard knock life if you will, or am I someone who's like nope, let me be let me be diplomatic with this. Let me leverage and use collaboration key with with the long term pictures on like that, but some people might be missing out opportunity trying to chase independence when you have some phenomenal collaborations. Are people wanting to work with you right now? Yeah, so it's like, I think it depends on the person.

Nicky Saunders  
And well, I think it depends on the person and The goal, you know, the goal is super important. Um, and of course, the ownership part is very important. Like, we've seen certain situations where, if it is a wallow and Gilly or Nipsey both situations have kept what is theirs? So, Wallow and Gilly their podcast they completely own. They don't get that at barstool. It's more of a partnership Nipsey the Masters all all money in records. That's his right. They don't own that it's a partnership. Right. So there's, there's two situations where, okay, Wallow and Gilly partnered with barstool, which got them, you know, to different levels. And then Nipsey with Atlantic to just more of a global status, and a more commercial status. Right. Now. If that is the case of, I'm trying to get further than I am, but I keep control. That's an option. I think that's one of the things that if, if we was to ever do anything, that's going to be one of my situations where it's like, we, we keep ownership of this. Right, I, there's more examples coming out more and more of partnerships, then rather, let me own it. But now we have seen, um, especially in the music industry, where there are certain contracts where the record label has the masters for a certain amount of time. And then when that time is up, they give the Masters back to the artists. Now, that's another situation of while we're dealing, you could you could have it while we're dealing. But once this contract is a wrap, I own it back. I think that's fair, too. Because it puts that you have skin in the game as well. And you're not just trying to take advantage of the situation. So I can respect that too. You know, what I, I quiver over is those full control situations. Just because we've seen, yeah, those those things without no equity without no real skin in the game, it's just here. I'm just happy to be here. Um, you gave me a check, praise God. Right. And when you do things just for a huge check, it is. It can be beneficial, depending on why you need the money. Right? When we talked about the YouTube stars, there was some that sold some of their videos for chunk of money in order to start a business. So some people are okay, with, Yo, you can have this, like, you can have this particular IP, you give me a chunk, and I could create something more cool with that. That's what I'm saying. It just all depends on the goal of why you are getting into corporates bed, or why you're getting into a particular collaborative situation. It's more on, you know, if I truly understand the vision, then I'm good. But if I'm just doing it off of this is what I'm supposed to be doing. That's where I'm like, I don't know. Now, granted, if this was me, two years ago, I would probably not be talking like this would be like, the opportunity is great, where you could work your way out of the opportunity. It's amazing. And then, you know, come back a few years later and say I am very sorry for telling you this. I think it's all about being strategic and understanding the goal about this, and not just Hello. I'm in the room with these particular people and you're not. Do you know how many people would love to be here? That's great. You deserve to be here. What is? What are you talking about?

I'm gonna say, um, listen, we are on Tik Tok. We are on fan base. We have an after show. That is pretty fire on Apple podcast. Okay, we're on all social media platforms. We're about to hit 5000 subscribers on YouTube. I say all that to say thank you to those who have followed us. Thank you for those who have subscribed to fan base and Apple podcasts. Both are available for for you for exclusive content as far as our thoughts and extra strategies after this show. Um, but moose are you ready? Ready?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah For the solo piece.

Nicky Saunders  
Okay. Final words?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I've read something this weekend. And it plays off of the idea of what people used to say in the past around their gift. But it said, the difference between passion and purpose, and passion satisfies your ego, because it's what you like to do. Purpose serves other people, because that's what you're called to do. So if you're stuck between a rock and a hard place this week, choose your passion, not your purpose. Am I meant to say your purpose? You mess up sometimes it works. Choose your purpose people. Choose your purpose, not your passion. There you go.