Episode 55 - Partnership For Millions

Nicky Saunders  0:00  
Whats poppin whats poppin whats poppin welcome to Nicky and Moose. I'm Nicky that's moose what's up moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  0:08  
What up y'all?

Nicky Saunders  0:09  
And it is Episode 55 and on today's episode we're gonna be talking about 700 and something million dollars that LeBron James just got or we'll talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. Um meg the stallion and Popeye's Yeah. Okay. And then yeah we're going to talk about it. I was debating on this Moose didn't think I wanted to talk about this we're going to talk about the Kyrie to get vaccinated to not go on your beliefs to not to lose money to not pretty much get the point moose how are we feeling about this episode?

Mostafa Ghonim  0:58  
Yeah, I'm excited for this dialogue man this is a it's a again it's my favorite episodes are the ones where we have a good balance of everything and with the Kyrie situation makes sense of this this is gonna be good.

Nicky Saunders  1:09  
Let’s get into this intro

Jaymie Jordan  1:13  
two kids from Queens come from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand new I'm talking about Nicky and Moose, bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force. More importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know love the most.

Nicky Saunders  1:42  
And you already know what time it is is the review of the week. Shout out everybody leaves us a review. This one says Episode 53 Nicky and Moose champions leaders in their own rights not only informative, thought provoking, but seeks to empower advocate advocates for those who have autonomy, as well as those who seek to find their own agency provides knowledge of current events, insider trends, and market gems to inspiring and igniting by simplifying the creative process behind leveling the playing field for those unrecognized to leveraging abilities. Felt like the whole tongue twister kind of situation.

Mostafa Ghonim  2:41  
The mixture of vocabulary there was rich, I'm even gonna lie that's, that's what's up. That's what's up. Thank you

Nicky Saunders  2:47  
listen, thank you for the review. Once again, I totally appreciate in these reviews of them truly understanding the show. Like they truly embodies this show in the review. So shout out to everyone who is leaving a review we watch. We watch them know what we read them. Right? And we share them we put them on our Twitter and our Facebook. Um, yeah, we just appreciate you. And of course, welcome and shout out to all our new and vets as far as our audio listeners and viewers. Welcome Moose how are we feeling today? Yes, how are we feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  3:35  
Man pretty good. Yeah, pretty good. Not as eventful as last week. solid colors on today. Shout out to Isaiah for totally remixing what my week look like in a three minute video it was hilarious. I knew it You know? Yeah, you know it's funny as I was saying it I kind of knew was coming. I'm like, Oh, this probably some Isaiah is gonna say but it's too late. You might as well just go with it now. So thank you, sir, for making us laugh. I did see the one that he put up with you too. That was hilarious. 

Nicky Saunders  4:04  
See it, but the thing is, I didn't react to yours. When I heard it. I just was just keeping moving. Whatever. Right? Yeah, shout out to Isaiah of course for not letting it go. And then with mine, I was like, No, no, don't cut that. It would be wrong if I didn't post that, but I posted it. I was like, All right. Well, yeah, that was like, we'll both get cracked on that's, that's fine. Whatever. Right? What can you say about this week? No. Okay. I don't want to get in trouble this week. What can you say about this week? I'm not saying anything.

Yeah, no, I mean, this week was good, you know, just a good Yeah, I don't know. It was a good week, a week.

People he is censoring himself. It's not even censoring me anymore. He's censoring himself.

Mostafa Ghonim  5:04  
crazy.

Nicky Saunders  5:05  
I try I try people and I'm Listen, I'm great. I had a great three days summit shout out to everybody who watched the monetize your some monetize your summit, monetize your brand summit. That was dope and unique. And we had the numbers were crazy. It was like, and I'm talking about comments like, over 1000 comments the first day, over a 5000 comments the second day and actually broke YouTube. Okay. Every single time they hit the emojis, like a whole gwap of it. It broke it down, like the stream would break. I'm like, Whoa, so that's different. Yes. And then the third day, we got over 4000 comments, people loving it. You know, I make sure that is not just empowering and makes you feel like you could do something. No, here do something. Please. Please. So yeah, it was very eventful, very, very eventful, very nerve wracking to I will say that

Mostafa Ghonim  6:21  
I can imagine it's one it's one thing to do at once and it's over with but when you have it running for three days in a row, it's like oh, keep it coming. Keep it coming.

Nicky Saunders  6:31  
It was definitely definitely different but shout out to everybody who watched the monetize your brand summit. We we appreciate you. Um, but let's get into this episode. So first one, oh, pop eyes and Meg the stallion so. Meg put out a tweet. Yes. Hotties is true. The mF hottie sauce is dropping at Popeye's, October 19. So pull up and get you some fire fire fire fire. Not only that, but your girl is now a franchise owner. And we'll be opening my very own Popeye's location. So, I really love this, because this is now starting to be no, not just another brand deal. Let me let me own something to let me start. And I think of course, I'm gonna give credit, even though maybe somebody did it before him but give credit to Rick Ross of maybe like, you know, I love wingstop. But I'm gonna own Phil, but he didn't have a sauce. He didn't have a flavor. So it wasn't that, right. But I like how everybody is being attracted to meg the stallion. She recently got a Nike deal, right? Which is, Hold on . Can we talk about this? How smart Nike is? And I'm gonna say because you probably won't, but I'll say it. If females are now dancing and twerking and squatting, right, Nike is flipping that on some, you're going to need Nike to do these squats to do these exercises to do this type of dance. And Nike totally supports it by giving you your own line. Right? Why not? Right? Nike is smart. Im, Nike, shout out to you. Okay. Shout out. Like, I don't know how we can get into this world. However, she looks like she's sweating. This is actually like a type of dance. And dance is considered some type of cardio. So we might as well pair up with Meg the stallion one of the hottest female artists right now. And, and do that, so shout out to Nike. That was smart. Right? But two um, with Popeyes I think of course, because she calls everybody hotties and everything and hot girl summer. I'm taking that as like, yo, you want to make a source? Cool. Let's do that. And I could only you know, give props to Meg because she said you know what? I'm gonna own some some locations as well. I think that's so dope. I don't Yeah, that's for me. And I think that's so dope.

Mostafa Ghonim  9:49  
Yeah, I think what caught my interest is that it said locations with an S, like there’s more than one you know? Yes. Like that's, that's cool. Like she's going in there with multiple things. No, but it's a great move. I mean, Obviously, chicken and just the idea of Popeye's in the community is one of the more popular restaurants right or one of the more popular fast food chains. So to get your name tied on something that has been around for, I mean, God, I'd have to look it up but I want to say at least 30 40 50 years or so it seemed like Popeye has been around for a minute so just to collaborate with a company that's been around for that long. The interesting thing about giving them a product I don't know that Popeye's has ever carried like unique or branded hot sauces of one particular type before right so now you're driving traffic through the product for people who will go in and just to get the hot sauce. And it's a lot like you know, when when people pair products or pair things together, it's rare that you're gonna go in and just get the hot sauce and walk out like at the cash register you're gonna smell the chicken you're gonna see this because you're gonna be tempted to be like, Ah, you know what, Okay, I'm gonna grab a number two while I'm at it so yeah, no, I think is is cool how they're pairing you know, some of these products together in certain verticals that just make sense. They complement one another, so it plays off of each other great.

Nicky Saunders  11:15  
So do you think and here's here's my question. Do you think that Popeyes copied McDonald's

Mostafa Ghonim  11:27  
Oh absolutely. Yeah, but I’ll let you finish. I thought you were gonna mention Travis Scott maybe but yeah,

Nicky Saunders  11:35  
no no no no because I mean we saw Travis Scott we've seen sweetie I feel like somebody else did it I can't remember but Travis Scott is clearly the the winner of these different brand deals when it comes to McDonald's so now here comes popeyes with well let's get meg the stallion before you go get meg the stallion you know um I think is cool however let me be a little controversial that would be good seconds two seconds all right why couldn't pop eyes and maybe this is because you know your audience and I'm cool with this well why couldn't Popeye's try to find a Caucasian person for instead of a African American for chicken I'm just um

we know the answer. 

I know. So here's two ways I'm really saying this not just to stir the pot but of course I appreciate you know pop eyes who do know their audience and knows they do cater to minorities to pick one of the best a minority who's doing it on top of as well as being a female so I could appreciate the understanding of the pot of like Popeyes 

Mostafa Ghonim  13:19  
yeah No, you know what I will say you know what I will say on that same token though. I would love it if they're going to go that route and collaborate with younger up and coming artists who are just you know, absolutely on a rocket ship right now in terms of their growth. I would love it that they start introducing some form of healthier options at at their restaurant Now I'm not saying all of a sudden become vegan and organic and this but maybe you bring better quality chicken right like just introduce give people the option to at least have healthy alternatives at the spot like don't keep going for the cheapest products so that the profit margins are great. If you're going to do these types of collaborations at least infuse good nutrition into the community because they're not going to go the other route but at least go this route if you don't go that approach. Okay cool, but give the people some good food to eat.

Nicky Saunders  14:14  
I see what you did there.

Mostafa Ghonim  14:15  
I mean, I'm just saying i would i would at least at least give us a good yeah don't don't give us the fake paper chicken that you know I'm saying I don't know what is it going to turn into when we eat it? But at least it was something to give us real chicken Can we ask for that you collaborate with Meg give us real chicken. That's the trade off.

Nicky Saunders  14:34  
Listen, I'm for it. But congratulations meg this huge and she's gonna be a franchise owner. That's that's super dope. But let's get into whew Yeah, moose gave me this. LeBron. The I don't know how you could stop him. like crazy, I don't I don't know how you could stop him. And so LeBron James scores a $725 million Spring Hill deal with Nike Redbird and Fenway sports group so so moose enlighten the people what is Spring Hill? Why this is worth so much What in the world?

Mostafa Ghonim  15:33  
Yeah, yeah so so so first off, man shout out to Maverick Carter that that is my my idol from a distance right? I feel like hopefully someday you know I'm saying someday so a maverick special requests or I'm saying brother Mr. Maverick Carter special request from the Nicky and moose podcast. You know, we'd love to have you on sometime. Huge, huge fan. Love the work. Just the mindset, the mentality. You know, just just would love to have one of these five minutes. Not too long. It's five minutes chat it up a little bit would be great. Yeah, just just five , but uh, yeah, thanks. Thanks for listening and talk to you soon. Thanks.

Nicky Saunders  16:18  
Like it’s the whole voicemail?

Mostafa Ghonim  16:19  
Yeah, you got to do the formal, you know, polite letter on audio. So he knows the sincere, No, but seriously, man, incredible, incredible business mind. So basically, just for those who have been listening, or just kind of coming across this, like what is going on, it's not a $725 million deal. It's a $725 million evaluation. Spring Hill is their production company that they started some years back. And they have been deep into storytelling, right? There are multiple interviews where Maverick Carter has come out and said, when he interned at Nike, the biggest thing that he learned was that Mike, Nike doesn't produce sneakers, they don't sell sneakers, they sell stories. So once he recognized the art of what they were doing, he really focused all of his energy on doing just that retelling stories that matter for athletes, for minorities, people in the community, right, different stories and kind of projecting those, those voices. So that production company has landed deals with Nike and some of these other companies that its most recent deal given an evaluation because they sold the minority stake. So they sold a certain percentage of the company away to this major deal, or this major company, and it gave it a $725 million evaluation. So just we already know LeBron is worth the bill. But now their production company is on the verge of reaching that billion dollar mark in terms of its overall evaluation. So huge, huge, huge deal. Not to mention the fact that I think earlier in the week, they also acquired another, another fitness company, I think it's called Total, which is like that. What is it? I don't know, how do you how do you describe that it's like the, the working out version of peloton, I guess,

Nicky Saunders  18:13  
on the wall and everything

Mostafa Ghonim  18:14  
The computer screen in the bar, it's like a virtual gym, if you will, but or an interactive gym. But they acquired, you know, struck a deal with them as well just earlier in the week. So the fact that and I would love that thing. That's that would be one of my questions. Like, when these things are happening, do they plan to like release or announced them both in the same week so that they can just blow up the entire channel for an entire week? Because it's like, you know, both deals in the same week that were literally two days apart. But no, I think it's just a major, major accomplishment and just love what they're continuing to do over there. 

Nicky Saunders  18:52  
Well LeBrons been busy. Didn't he open up like an institution like last week or something like that? 

Mostafa Ghonim  18:58  
Well he has his I promise school. Yeah, that's, um, that's been up and running for a minute. Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  19:03  
But it's, uh, he's just been busy. But the thing that got me with this particular deal is one of the partners is Epic Games. Right? And they've done work before. But mav was on of course, a recent interview about this whole situation. And this is what he said,

Maverick Carter  19:28  
Brother verse is the future of the world. I'm just happy that we're partners with epic so we're going to be a part of that future. And as they build the future of the world and build what the metaverse actually looks like, springhill company will be their partner. As they build everything that's happening in the metaverse and digitally, we will be their partner for what's happening in real life. And how does content play a part in the metaverse? How does things that they launch in the metaverse also play come to life in the real world. We did the first ever partnership with Epic where they launched a skin they launched in LeBron skin in the game, and we did a real life experience and a real life piece of content in real life that launch at the same exact time the first time they've ever done that. And we're going to do much more of that.

Nicky Saunders  20:15  
So, I like this, because it comes to when we're talking about partnerships. What point, and I'm going to lean on Moose, for this a lot, is at what point do you think about how much money this is going to make me? And then at what point? Are you thinking about the forward thinking, how, how much is this partnership going to make me relevant for the future? Am I going to be ahead of things? Am I going to stay relevant in the next 5, 10 years instead of maybe just thinking about what's relevant right now. And so we saw and we went over the whole, you know, fortnight deal with with LeBron and how he had a skin and how he came out with actual product, the fact that they're being intentional with saying, hey, you think about the virtual world, the metaverse and we're going to think about how that content can come to real life and combined it and stop truly separating the two. But making it a full blown experience when you go into the metaverse and when you're dealing with real life, so I'm, I'm looking at it like with partnerships and being in business. Do Do you now once you're seeing these types of deals, do we have to start thinking about Yo, there's a lot of things that are changing. We're we're hearing more about the metaverse, we're hearing about NF T's we're hearing about we're hearing like, it's not going away that I recently heard a Meek Mill interview and we'll get into that later. But all he was saying was up. I'm probably going to get out of music in a few few years. But I'll drop it in NFT. I'll get more into the metaverse, I'll get like so people are starting to make that into a regular thing. So yeah. When we look at it, how much do we think about money? And how much we think about the future?

Mostafa Ghonim  22:41  
Yeah, I mean, at this point in time, I think it's, it's they're both equally important. And when we say future, you got to like for those of you listening, you got to understand what that means, right? It's you have to think, how can you add longevity to your brand, you can't expect that just because you're relevant today, you're going to be relevant 10 years from now, 20 years from now, as generations get older, how can you start to plant your brand, your company, your product, your service, in the ears, or in the in the path of the younger generation, so that as they're navigating their interest, they start to get introduced to what you do as well. So when you think about why this is genius from lebrons campus, because this is not LeBron, who is 20 something years old, who has a lifeline in the NBA, and is going to get this free marketing and being publicized by the NBA, you know, all over the world. He's at the end of his career where maybe in three to five years, he's going to be completely phased out, where at some point there is going to be some kid growing up in the next five years. If you ask him, Hey, who's your favorite player? LeBron James is not going to be even an option to them because they're not going to know. But what are they going to know? This metal world, right? Or this metaverse world, which is literally a virtual world where people can pretty much exchange everything from digital products to digital housing, like from what I've learned about it so far, and, and a good friend of mine, his son, Caden, shout out to Caden. And I think they listened to this as well from time to time, Caden was kind of introducing me to this whole thing, and I'm like, yeah, this is an entire world that for business people, especially if you're in the in the, in the business of storytelling, and really thinking about how you can introduce it. It's a very smart partnership to put yourself in the longevity, you add years to your brand. So I would even say, Nick, it's probably even 60 40 because if you if you're making money right now, and you're able to add years to your brand or your company by making it younger, well guess what? You've just extended the money that you're making now for an additional 10 20 years, basically On where you collaborate and position yourself

Nicky Saunders  25:03  
fair I’m not mad at that that's a percentage percentage. I'm like, I'm so torn because I'm like, the the bag is important. bag is super important, however, comma. I want to be relevant. I'm not partnering with you if I can't be relevant later. Absolutely, absolutely. Um, yeah, I'm doing something to get more exposure. I'm getting some well, that could be one of the reasons that may not be the main reason, but that for some exposure, and relevance is important. So yeah,

Mostafa Ghonim  25:49  
yeah, let me show let me share this real quick while we're on it, right. I've been getting into the show billions on amazon prime. And I don't typically like binge on any shows. But I've been catching an episode from time to time here and kind of starting to learn about it. And this applies to it right? And this is probably something that I'll have to do like some form of like business masterclass, masterclass, that's at some point about it. But in one of the episodes, the the guy who is like one of the main characters, Bobby Axelrod, I think his last name is and for those of you who watched it, you probably know where I'm going with it, if you haven't, just listen to this part right here, right, because it literally is a formula for how you can stay relevant. And build your business to new heights, right? So in short, he's having a conversation with his wife, where his wife is launching a new business and, and he didn't want to tell her that your business is not gonna succeed, but she was going to him like, hey, put me in the room, put me in the room, I want to sit down at the table and negotiate this thing. So he she catches him at a bad time, and he just tells her this thing, here's why it won't gonna work, it's not gonna work. You're not the best in the world at it. Your service formula, or delivery of method is not something you invented. There is no part of the process that's patentable or creates a unique user experience. You don't have an isolated market sector, and you haven't branded the concept. So it's a low, it's a low debt. But if you think about what he's saying, he's really saying, your what part of the business have you demolished in a way that's been so unique? So So dominated and isolated to you that's going to keep you around forever? If you don't have that, it almost makes no sense to stay on it, you know, or look to build it long term. So again, when you think about why these partnerships are relevant, it's exactly for that reason, it keeps him in the game for a longer lifeline.

Nicky Saunders  27:54  
That's good. I hope people took notes on that one. That was Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Mostafa Ghonim  28:00  
Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  28:04  
Um, alright, let's, let's talk about it. Let's switch gears. Yeah, let's, let's have this conversation. So if you haven't been on social media for a few weeks? I don't know. Maybe you watch ESPN? Maybe you watch CNN because it was on there, too. It's everywhere. Pretty much to see you. Yeah, you had to. And disclaimer, we are not saying take the vaccine, do not take the vaccine. We're not we're not coming to this topic with that approach. Okay. However, you want to deal with this, how you deal with it, and we will support you regardless. Right. But Kyrie Irving, who is a NBA player of the nets, was very excited about By the way, um, is now not able to play, I think, I don't know if it's still home games or just overall games because he is not getting vaccinated. And he was very silent for a bit on everybody giving their two cents of is Kyrie retiring. is he leaving the NBA? Why's the Nets keeping him? Is this fair? Is this not? So? Here's what Kyrie said just a little bit. He went live recently. And he did speak on the manner of you know, what what's happening by him not being vaccinated. So this isn't is

kyrie Irving   30:01  
all right, you know, nobody's gonna hijack my voice, nobody's gonna take the power away from me that I have for speaking on these things, you know and don't believe that I'm retiring don't believe that you know I'm gonna give up this game for a vaccine mandate or staying on vaccinated don't believe any man like like really be aware of what's being said before I even get a chance to be on the podium and speak for myself. And I'm saying like all these people saying all these things about what's going on with me and it's just not true pay attention to what's going on out in the real world, you know, people are losing their jobs to these mandates, people are having to make choices with their own lives, which I respect, you know, and I don't want to sit here and and play on people's emotions either just use logic, you know, what would you do? You know, if you felt uncomfortable going into the season, when you will promise that you will have exemptions.

Nicky Saunders  31:06  
So, I'll start this one off. So I want to point out the last part, where he said, How would you feel? Like, would you be comfortable if you were promise, certain exemptions. Now, if that is the case, for me, my thought process is this kind of foul right now. Me and Moose have had multiple, multiple, but like a few conversations about this whole vaccine situation and, you know, taking COVID tests and all this stuff. And my whole thing is, I can understand why certain companies, big time names are mandating this situation, I can understand it, and doesn't mean I agree with it, I can understand it. My reason of understanding it is if this is the only solution, quote unquote, that is out there in the public, mind you, there's a lot of things we are, you know, we deemed as be the only thing because this is what they're only advertising, okay, so if getting vaccinated is the only way to truly protect people with this COVID-19 situation that put the whole world in a super standstill. And if numbers go outrageous again, we can go right back to it, I can send my understand why, especially people like the NBA, and NFL, you know, like I can understand why that may be a bit mandated now. Where you have to be a big boy or big girl about it is you have to understand with the world watching entertainment like that, and you getting paid millions of dollars, you have a choice. You know, you have a choice? Do I take it or do I not? And if I don't I have the risk of no longer being on this team, maybe let alone the league that that could get a little bit tricky. Now I will go. Like I said, I will go back to what he said if they had promised him maybe earlier before the season started or magic, we're in pre season right now. Hey, you don't have to and now it changed. I can understand feeling a certain kind of way, but you can't really be shocked. That's how I feel about it. Like you can't really be shocked about this. You have been paid millions of dollars to go by the rules of this particular this particular industry, this particular situation, millions. You have a choice. Now he he he stands on his choice. And I could only support it. You know it, it is somebodies. How do I put this is somebody’s choice of what they put in their body what they don't. But you have to be truly, truly cool with you leaving a huge amount of money and opportunity right there. That's your choice. Now, I do appreciate that. He's not like some people that can be very ignorant and just say, you know, whatever they want, like he was silent for a while, you know, practice when he could always had a mask on when he was practicing, like, he did what he could, with still believing what he did. Yeah, but it's, it's not about what's fair or what's not. It's more on. This is now starting to be a true situation with certain businesses. I think Nick just gave me something about Delta, that they're actually not making it mandated to get vaccinated anymore. Let me get it right here. Delta Airlines CEO announces company will ditch COVID vaccine mandate, because you know why? Because a lot of people are leaving. You may not have employees, I know what you try and do. But you may not. And it goes always to, there are people who just don't want to be told, from a health standpoint, what to do.

Mostafa Ghonim  36:53  
yeah. Yeah, I mean, the guy I respect I respect Kyrie Irving, and just his overall stance and his approach with this, everyone's gonna have their approach with it. I think the vaccine conversation has probably been just as if not more divisive, than the race, religion conversations, political conversations that have happened over the last 18 months to two years, right. Like, I feel like, we've definitely been divided. And this is one of those things that have created again, where at first it was national mask, and then it was vaccine, no vaccine, and people were, you know, shred two parts because of that. But I think you got to respect what he's what he's doing, because for one, other parts of his life aligned with the position that he's taken here, right? I think, maybe, maybe I'm a little biased here, because he, he recently came out and at least said that he claimed to have taken on the Muslim faith. He was practicing Ramadan during the season last year, right? fasting doing the whole nine. So you gotta respect it like this is someone who is really not just saying, I'm trying to cause disruption, I want attention. So I'm gonna go against the rules and be a rebel. Now you got to look at his actions over the last three to five years. It's not even just last year or the year prior to that, three to five years, he's left two teams, because he was unhappy with either who he was playing with, or mentally, he just couldn't, couldn't really connect the dots. He wasn't happy with what was happening, started to make changes in his own beliefs in himself and how he interacted with the media, how he played the sport, how he did what he does, so you got to respect that personal choice. Now the other part of it to me that I think is also not fair or forget fair, because I know people are gonna say life a fair, but it's just not clear enough to say, Yep, he absolutely is out of line for this is that the only reason why this conversation is happening is because he plays for the Brooklyn Nets, which is a team in New York. And New York, I think, is probably one of the only states if not a part of a select few to mandate the vaccine in in the city, right? Like it's one of the only states so had he been playing for, I don't know, somewhere in Oklahoma or another team. I don't know that the same rules would have applied to him. So it wouldn't have been as big of an issue. So at the same time, taking into consideration the fact that my man is making $31 million just on his contract alone. Like his his his plan contract this year through basketball study, 1 million got another 15 million through sponsorships and money outside of the sport. So so he's willing to walk away from nearly $50 million just this year alone because of what he believes so I hope it doesn't take this route. But it's starting to sound and seem like a collar Nic another like collar nic situation, part two, this time because of the vaccine. So I don't know, I just hope that as a system, we can start to be more open to people's choices. Now again, for those of you who are like not, that's just is what it is. You can't be mad at the man if he if he walks away or decides to go about it his own way. We don't control their lives, we might be fans of the sport, we might be supporters of the sport, we might be fans of kyrie himself, but you can't be mad at him for wanting to you know, make a personal choice. That's that's for himself. So I'll just come out and say I'm definitely with kyrie on this.

Nicky Saunders  40:46  
So we all know, from an NFL standpoint, they got rid of cam, because he didn't want to get vaccinated. Right. And so it's it's a real situation now. This is where, for your point of, you know, New York is mandating, and maybe if he was on any other team, you know, it wouldn't be a problem. However, it does show that you do not want to play by the rules. So now you're more of a liability to other teams, like okay, if you don't want to do this, then we may not want you over here, because you what they're trying to argue is like, yo, you've been a situation and all your teams, you've been injured, you know, now this situation like, what are we think we're talking about the vaccine Because it's, it's, you know, the most recent thing, and it's relevant. But are we now taking something like that? And now, kind of putting it as you don't follow rules? Because you don't want to take this?

Mostafa Ghonim  42:13  
No, no, but you can't even take that position. Look, I'm someone who, I can honestly say that over the last three years, a big portion of my work in my study has been related to team dynamics, culture, right? From a business sense. That's kind of been my focus on my study. And I can I can tell you right now that culture isn't successful when you're forcing people to do something, if it does, if it if it's not mission purpose, driven it people are not going to rally behind it. Right. Now, at the same time, Kyrie didn't sign up to take vaccines, like kyrie isn’t a scientist kyrie is a basketball player. So if he's abiding by your basketball rules, which I'm sure he is, because you've kept them on the team, you've brought him back, right? Like it's, it's, he's still there. So you got to assume that from a basketball standpoint, he's at least fulfilling the obligations to the bare minimum that would allow him to stay on the team. Now this other portion of it, it's a completely new conversation that I can't call him a rule breaker because of this to me, and yes, we might, we might say, and I'm a former athlete, so I understand. We might say, Oh, this person is selfish, or he's putting himself above the team. That's maybe something we can say an athletic world because he's looking out for himself. But I would ask respectfully for everyone who hasn't been at that level to you can't you can't really share your opinion on that or or Bash him for it if you haven't been in his shoes willing to, you know, having to face those decisions. The stakes are much higher at that level. Nicks like we can say he was due to make 600 million this year. Right? But if if my man lost his life, I don’t think none of this money matters. It don’t matter how much he's worth, if he loses his life to something whether because of physical, mental, or whatever it is, none of this stuff matters. So it just it's just crazy to me that in this whole conversation we've seen so many people lose their lives. And in a way we're saying oh, that's that's why we should get vaccinated. But we're not also mindful of how delicate life is so I think there are more reasons to wait really what I'm trying to say there are more reasons to this of him wanting to stay away from the vaccination but I can't I can't say he's a rule breaker because of that. Like it's not basketball related. Yeah,

Nicky Saunders  44:42  
I get it but I look at like that type of NBA NFL all those like, almost treated like the government. You're like yeah, we signed the to play this. But really is a lot more politics than expected. This is not particularly playing in the playground anymore on the courts outside anymore, right? It's you're dealing with, you're dealing with a lot more politics and industry talk, then maybe you're comfortable with, like, you are a player of the team. And this is, this is no shade. To Kyrie, this i'm not saying it to lower hand because he's highly successful. Right? Um, I'm looking at it from a business standpoint. And of course, from me being in the military, there's a lot of things I'm really sign up for, that I had to do. Now, understanding that, it's like, well, this is business is business like, It's nothing personal, we get your rights and you know what you want to do? And I don't even think it's the NBA that's making such a big deal. It is the outside world it is the social media period. That is narrating how good or bad Kyrie is how, like, I think, somebody I don't want to misquote it. Steven Naismith got a lot of backlash for how negative he's talking about, Kyrie and that's not, you know, that's not what neither one of us is about to do or anything like that. But it's more on social media and media in general will spin how important this vaccination situation is, or how important we or how we look at Kyrie at this moment when there was a rule that was placed and he is one. He's the only one that's not going with it. 

Mostafa Ghonim  47:17  
Right. Well, you know what, just because you bring your bring the media situation up, I will say and this is probably the lesson part, I mean, it so far, we really kind of just sharing our opinion. I mean, it is what it is. But I will say the lesson though, and we've talked about this before, the power of controlling your own narrative, when it was in the hands of the media, everything you know what to believe, oh, he's retiring. Oh, he's holding out, oh, he's doing this, oh, this is the case. Oh, he's that. But the fact that he's able to control his own narrative and simply have a method of going direct to consumer going live and saying, Alright, here's what it is. Let me tell you from me, you know, what's happening? What, what, what it is what, what I'm focused on, I understand. So I think that is a big part of the lesson. Now in the past, we've seen, we've said, when you have the platform, you can control the narrative. The part that I want to add this time is yo get to a level where you can at least be comfortable enough on camera to share that. Right? Because that's that's a tough, that's a tough thing to go out. And I think I've seen the screen share of him a lot. They were over like, I don't know, I think 16 17,000 people on that live watching him. That's a lot. That's a lot, right. That's that could be very uncomfortable. So I think just to kind of spin it even from from just a simple lesson standpoint. It helps to have direct to consumer or just access to be able to share your voice and control your narrative. But you got to be comfortable enough and have, you know, the courage to speak out.

Nicky Saunders  48:49  
Big facts shoutout to Kyrie for actually using his platform and allowing us to hear his side because what is it the very beginning part was like, if they have promised that I can understand the frustration, so shout out to Kyrie, but let's transition of social media and how the media depicts us into Meek Mill recently, came out with an album, expensive pain. It's pretty good album, I ain't gonna lie. And he did a recent interview with complex shout out to speedy that I always say shout out like I know these people I don't know speedy but shout out to speedy because I think he's amazing at what he does. But the topic of social media came out and how's he feel about it right. Recently he got some backlash from his album cover. That was Created by an artist called Nina Chanel, right? Who is a African American who creates art to totally empower of females put it on his album. He they his marketing team, put it on a whole bus, some individual shout out to my dog in the background just walking around. But um, it this individual Caucasian man went on social media and was like, this is how you want to be depicted females, this is how you want to be depicted black women, which I just found that really ignorant. But of course, that plus all the rumors that you know, Meek Mill has the battles, like how does meek feel feel? So this is what he said,

meek mill  50:53  
I see a comment about myself and want to go extra hard. And so like, that world is like imaginary to me, you will see 1000 people on internet today, I will go viral on the internet number one trend. Let's walk into arena right now. And 10 minutes later, I'm gonna show you how to clap and scream for Meek Mill that is a facade. And they use it to actually contain artists and control artists.

Nicky Saunders  51:19  
So the fact that he said like control artists. I feel that that could be possibly true. There's no facts, right? But we we've continuously see different celebrities, influencers who get to a certain point and then all of a sudden, there's some rumors, there's some cancellation, there's something that is always a problem. And if the particular influencer celebrity artists engages with it, then they're the bad guy. Right? Like, for example, the whole Dave Chappelle situation, everybody's trying to cancel my man right now. Um, you either want to cancel him or you don't based off art that he's done. And I call his comedy art because, you know, who am I to say that its not, you know, that's his way of expressing himself, and in a comedic way. So I feel as if we put too much strength on social media, we put too much power to something that literally can turn off. Like, we do still live real lives. Regardless, if even in my past conversations of being truly authentic on social media and show who you really are what you really do, and which is true. There are still people who are going to have an opinion about what you do, regardless, like, that is the thing, social media gives a platform to everybody. Regardless if they deserve a platform or not, regardless if they're intelligent or not, are harmful or not. Like everybody has a platform. Understanding that we have to be very mindful that there is going to be a time where we reach a certain level and people are going to say some crazy stuff. And we have to understand with having our own platform comes responsibilities and ignorant stuff that we have to deal with period. And it's not for the week. But I like what meek said, with, you know what you can keep me trending, like how he was trending with the, you know, when he battled Drake and the, you know, breakup with Nicki Minaj there was rumors that him and Ross had a problem. But then go to a show everybody is still screaming his name and reciting his lyrics. Yeah. So are we going to I'll say this, are we going to have our panties in a bunch for 15 minutes? Or maybe, you know, depending how big it is a whole day out of 300 and some days of the year out of your whole lifespan because I think he's 34 right? Are we going to trip off of what people who don't honestly know us who haven't really lived our life or even in our circle, and family members, like they're not that what they may think? Because they don't pay our bills or anything. But then when I go do my regular stuff in real life, I'm still loved, I'm still getting paid. I'm still have a support system, like nothing changes. But I can't put my care on what you may think, in. Why Oh, me. And you never met me. You never had a conversation with me. You don't know, my true goals, my true situation, you're just going based off of what you saw. And you had your own opinion. So, and I love how we put the Kyrie and the meek situation, because it's really just media in general of how somebody perceives you. And it's up to you. What you do with that, but that has been, of course, from a deeper topic of why mental health is actually being talked about way more, because of situations that are happening in a virtual world that can be turned off in any situation.

Mostafa Ghonim  56:37  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and and i think it reminds me of the flight assessment, because anytime we're talking on the flight assessment, and we start telling people, this is the portion of the report that lets you know how others see you. I kid you not Nicky 95% of the time I get a reaction about that part of it. So what do they see? What do they think? And I'm and I understand, like, we're just almost wired to care what other people think, yeah, right. Now, at scale, what is what does that scale? what other people think at scale is social media, right? Like you have billions of people sharing their opinions. And if you happen to be someone who's known or popular, has large influence and a large following. You have hundreds of 1000s 1000s 100, whatever it is, of people sharing their opinion, and their thoughts about you. So yeah, you're right, it can absolutely be mentally draining, it can be very tough, just emotionally, to handle all of these different thoughts and ideas about who you are and who you're supposed to be and what you can do and what you can't do. And I think it's a great opportunity for us to practice and train ourselves, just how can we? How can we navigate that world. So I'm not mad at meek for saying that’s a world, that I turn off, and he's really able to create separation between virtual world and real world, like virtual world is necessary. It's important, I understand the limits of it. But I'm not going to allow it to peek into my real world. Because at the end of the day, as he said, if I go into, you know, an arena, of course, there's going to be all these people showing love. My personal opinion on it, I think it comes down to two things, it comes down to boredom and greed its people who are bored, so they feel like I'm bored, let me just kind of bandwagon to share my opinion. And it's greed, because you're so selfish, that we like entertainment. And we know that Meek Mill at the end of the day is an entertainer. So if he came to our city, we'll go to his show. So it's like, you're suffering from both of those sides from a consumer standpoint, that I think is what's contributing to the larger issue, but I love it from a producer standpoint, or at least from his perspective is like, you know, what, no, I'm, I'm way past it. I'm at a point where I can create separation between my digital world and my real world, so that it doesn't affect me and prove and he has proved to show it. So I think that also helps.

Nicky Saunders  59:11  
And, you know, we, you look at what he actually produces, he's has like five albums and like, multiple mixtapes. And is still relevant. Like, I think he's been in the game for a whole decade. So it's, and I do remember the times when meek was concerned about social media, he deactivated his Instagram multiple times. You know, Um dealing with Drake and the social media world with the memes. Like, that was a situation. But as you get mature with your craft and you get mature with this Social media game, you understand? I can turn this off, and then come back in a few days, and no one is talking about me. Huh, no one.

Mostafa Ghonim  1:00:12  
What's your take on um just a quick question, what's your take on some of these new features that allow you to turn off comments? to not show the number of likes? Like, what? I'm just curious.

Nicky Saunders  1:00:27  
Um, I think it's, it gives people peace of mind. But the problem is, we do care about what people say, and how many people like us. And so, not many people have probably turned that off. Especially since these platforms will actually not promote you as much. If you do turn off your comments. So they're trying to say, you know, don't care about what people say. But if we don't know what people say about you, we're not going to promote you. And so social media

Mostafa Ghonim  1:01:08  
likes them. What about from a numbers standpoint, with the likes, do you think like someone's following can take a hit because

Nicky Saunders  1:01:14  
I don't like that one. I don't think I don't think that could take so much of a hit because social media has input too much value to likes for a while since there were bots before that you could buy likes. And so many of the social medias don't really put too much strength and energy into that. But once again, not a lot of people are turning it off, because they want to see how many people like that particular content, because we've got so accustomed to it, social media has created a place where we care about vanity metrics. And it's hard to unplug from that, after years of saying, this is important. This is important. People like you, you're popular, you're one of the top influencers, because you have this amount of engagement and this amount of followers. And like when you step back on it, you're like, Yo, this is this is a real life. But at some point, if you play the game, right, it can be your real life in a positive way. Like people know you in real life, who you are, people feel like they know you in real life now that sometimes backfires because you are in control of what you put. And so some people assume they know you. Which if you do the social media platform, right, it could be true, or it could be false. So I wish people could leverage social media but don't put too much power to social media. Use it to get to the next level, creative, amazing community that rock with you for what you do and how dominant you are in your craft. However, don't get it to the point where you are stressing about what people say about you because you still have to deal with that in real life. Yeah, and if you can't deal with in social media you probably deal with it worse in real life just saying what that is the end How you feeling? 

Mostafa Ghonim  1:03:59  
yeah no good conversation. I mean, I think you know, I wish I wish more people can do this you know, in even bigger places that matter you know, like I don't I can't say that we necessarily agree on every single topic we discuss. But we're able to have conversation and you know, bring our perspectives to the table, extract the lessons from it and move on. I literally that's literally what we do every single week. So I just wish that this could at some point serve as an example in bigger places that matter of law Oh, we can actually do that. Like we can not believe the same thing or have different perspectives on something but still talk about it, extract the good and bad the pros and cons of it, take some lessons and how we can do it better and move on.

Nicky Saunders  1:04:44  
And not. Not insult and not. Yeah, not to have any kind of hard feelings. Afterwards is sometimes can can have a healthy conversation. Yeah, and it not downplay who you are. That's it.

Mostafa Ghonim  1:05:07  
I agree. Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  1:05:11  
But listen, follow us everywhere at Nicky and Moose, leave us a review. We appreciate it. Every Tuesday, we're going on live on social media. I can't even say YouTube anymore, because we're doing some changes, and we're trying some new things. So go check us out, mainly on YouTube, at 8pm on Tuesdays 7pm, central 5pm. West Coast time, but moose final words. 

Mostafa Ghonim  1:05:46  
Yeah I mean, I want to kind of play off of this last piece that we talked about, but I think it's a good reminder for people to know that just because things are not going according to plan doesn't mean that it's not a part of the plan. Just because things are not going according to plan doesn't mean it's not a part of the plan. That doesn't mean that you haven't been called to do it. It doesn't mean that you're not the right person for it. It means that you just got to dig a little deeper, right to show that you can be trusted with it.