Episode 95 - The Million Dollar Podcast Formula | How To Start A Podcast with David Shands

Nicky Saunders  
Whats poppin whats poppin whats poppin. Welcome to Nicky and moose. I'm Nicky, that's moose. Whats up Moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  
What up yall?

Nicky Saunders  
And on this episode we have a very, very special guest. Family pretty much known as the podcast King right now. Entrepreneurship one on one. Just sleep is for suckers.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Come on 

Nicky Saunders  
E complex, this new studio that I can't even I don't even know if I'm able to say it yet because I don't even know if it's open but it's so fire. And I can't I don't even have words for it. Moose. Who are we talking about?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man, one of the most consistent people you've probably seen on the internet for the last decade. We're talking about the one and only David Chan's, y'all let's get to

Nicky Saunders  
Listen, Listen. This interview has been asked several times we made it happen. Let's just get into this intro

Jaymie Jordan  
Two kids from Queens cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand Yeah, I'm talking about Nicky and moose bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality the behaviors the driving force, more importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know love the most.

Nicky Saunders  
And before we get into this episode, you already know this is powered by Ecamm live all in one live streaming platform that everything from Nicky and Moose from the audio and the video is created by Ecamm live. So if you want to be a part of that for 14 days on us, www.Nickyandmoose.com/ecamm for those who can't spell it e c a m m, but let's get into this interview. We have the man of the hour the day some may say the month we don't know yet. Let's see how this interview goes. David chans 

David Shands  
First of all, I got ecamm live and mine don't look like that like the little two circles how you do that?

Nicky Saunders  
We got you after we got you after.

David Shands  
I need training

Nicky Saunders  
How have you been?

David Shands  
I'm amazing, man. I am amazing. Happy to be here. Excited. I was wondering when I was gonna get my shot on this podcast, y'all done broke down every business every brand all pop culture, man. This is dope man which are doing so I'm excited to be here.

Nicky Saunders  
Listen, we've seen We've seen the rise, we have to talk about it. Okay, we seen we've seen not only from the YouTube, but from the podcasting from now these new partnerships. We have to we had to bring you on we had to bring you on. But let's start off with the five people who don't know you don't know you at all, or just like five. All right. They probably just one from our audience, but five who may, you know, find this podcast up? Who is you?

David Shands  
I am an entrepreneur, I am a husband and a father. I do cool stuff in entrepreneurship, slightly addicted to entrepreneurship. I can't stop thinking about building and creating stuff we're at a level now is I can just like try some stuff and whether it works or not. Not worried about it because it's fun doing it. And but like moose said, I really thank you for just acknowledging consistency because I literally have been at this for a long time. And it hasn't changed. Like I haven't really. I mean, we upgraded you know, strategy and a formula. But it's literally been the same direction for the same group of people for the entrepreneur that wants to start something and get it going. So, man, I just, I'm just honored to be here and above a lot of stuff. I am a podcaster and I want to help as many people launch what you guys are doing right now as possible. Like I want to be known as the person who launches podcasts, period, big small. Everything and I just really, really passionate about the next 10 years. The people that are in the space right now will own the Internet. The most powerful voices like there's no there's no way bro there's, there's no think of a time just growing up where you would listen to one person or two people or one particular show for over an hour every single week. No one's ever done like somebody might put like Jay Z might drop out you'll listen to album until another album comes out and you learn all the lyrics to that song and it's over. If they don't drop another album, you just don't listen to him as much on a regular basis as you did, right, but right now, as a pot, there's some people when that notification goes off, you're locked in for an hour. The people have that type of power, I promise you, it will be the voices of the generation. So I'm excited man.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the reason why I mentioned consistency is because you didn't land on podcasting, or better yet, you didn't start at podcasting. There were some other stops along the way. But definitely the one thing we can all attest to is that the passion, the drive, the consistency was there throughout talk about the beginning of the journey, and what was the spark or the start onto entrepreneurship? Before we get to where we are today?

David Shands  
For sure, oh, I guess there'll be a lot of beginnings. I mean, whether we're going back into my my love for entrepreneurship as a kid of like raking leaves in my own yard, and I look around, and I see leaves on other people's yard. And I don't know what makes me think to myself, yo, when I'm done this, I'm gonna go see if I can do there's like, not everybody. So another another one of my friends, they'll be raking their leaves. And they're like, Yo, Suze, I'm done this, I'm gonna go play. Or I'm doing it because my parents told me to I don't know what I don't know. Like, it's it's I don't know, if it was like an innate thing. But I didn't. I didn't work on being able to see opportunity. But, you know, that was, you know, some beginnings. Obviously, a lot of us sold candy in school, we saw a market. And we sold it right? Or it could be the beginning of my drug dealing career. I wasn't that good at it. But I did. So a little bit.

Mostafa Ghonim  
I gave it a shot.

David Shands  
That's a part of my journey. So that that that started my career of like, I found something that somebody wants as an adult, but am I willing to risk it? I mean, am I willing to risk my life for it?

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah, that may be the title from drug dealer to podcaster.

David Shands  
Like, literally, I sold everything from weed to real estate, and everything in between. So I got my real estate license in like 2005. I just, I always was, I just wanted to get it. Like, I just wanted to get it. And I don't even know if it was like the money. But not I'm like thinking back, I don't ever think I was thinking, let me make as much money as I could versus Yo, this is cool. We should do this. And I could do something. It's like working on something like some people are addicted to building model cars. I'm addicted to building businesses. But my problem is I would start and stop and start and stop and start and find another model car to build. But yeah, I got a lot of first thought to begin is where are we talking now, though? In the podcasting space?

Nicky Saunders  
Where do you where do you want to go? How about that? Yeah, let's start where you want to go. We know several angles when it comes to you. So wherever you feel that would add the most value to the audience.

David Shands  
Alright, let's go podcasting. Okay, let's go for that before. Okay, we'll talk about podcasts. We'll go a little bit before that. left my job at the Cheesecake Factory building a t shirt brand called Sleep is for suckers geared towards entrepreneurship. And people don't lose sleep doing what they love. I've always had an affinity for entrepreneurs and entrepreneurship. And I joined a lot of network marketing companies because I really, really love community. And I think the core foundation of everything that I've done has been community. So after I left my job, I started doing these entrepreneurship workshops in the city. Now it's cool if you will do events, but I got the footage, like CJ spoke years ago, I got it. I think it was like fat CJ too.

Nicky Saunders  
I think that's rare nowadays. 

David Shands  
For sure NFT worthy for sure. I got the footage. But I was doing these entrepreneurship workshops, because I believed and maybe it was selfish. I believed that if I was going to grow as an entrepreneur, I had to get around other entrepreneurs. And if there wasn't a gathering of entrepreneurs, I just had to put it together myself. So I would go to a bar or like a lounge and say, Hey, what's your slowest day of the week? You know, say, well, Wednesday or Thursday or whatever. I'm like, great. Let me bring in a whole bunch of people here. You get to keep the money from the alcohol and the food. I get to sell tickets. It's a win win situation. You get the pickup business and I get to get this footage and that was the agreement until until they started making too much money and they wanted to renegotiate, and I'm like, alright, well, I'll just find another one. Right? They wanna she had her own club and we started doing it there. And then I think she had some issues with our partners. And that didn't work out for long, but I just kept doing that and then we started Do on a Monday evening call at midnight, every Monday. And we did it for two years. 104 calls straight. I had no, it wasn't a lead magnet. It wasn't a funnel. It was my ability to get some people to come speak to my friends and it kept growing. This is like free conference call.com knows this before zoom, we're just doing phone calls. But i just always believed in community. So I mean, just the whole, I guess more or less, maybe this whole podcast is bringing people together and moving people, if you can get them all in one place, is to start of really building something special not only for the people, but for yourself So.

Mostafa Ghonim  
I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that just a few minutes in was it was that? Was that your question that I just jumped in front of you. I'm sorry. Go for it.

Nicky Saunders  
Its ok its alright you got it, look i do it to you all the time so im not.  

Mostafa Ghonim  
So the conversation, I jumped in early.

Nicky Saunders  
Nah you Good, you good. So you mentioned it. So we got to talk about it. Because you have one of the best entrepreneurship communities out now. Like, I don't know any other calls that happen Monday through Friday, or I don't know if you go Saturdays, but a lot of days throughout the week, every single day, and it's over, like 50 hundreds of entrepreneurs, just pretty much for accountability for lessons getting taught from experts, like, talk to us about the lessons that you've learned when it comes to building an online community.

David Shands  
Um, I think at some point, you just have to be selfish, meaning I've I need accountability. So when people sit, like see the call, and they think that I'm selling them, because I'm thinking you need a community. I built the community because I need it. Like I need accountability. Let me tell you how the morning meetups started though. So we had a coaching community. It was a set. It's costly. It was nice. And I think we did Sunday night calls and Wednesday night calls I want to say and one day we did that for a couple of years. And one day I was like I realized that I wasn't getting up early at all. So I lived to sleep is for suckers lifestyle. Were up till three, four o'clock in the morning. I'd brag about that. Because I'm up three, four or five o'clock in the morning working. But I wouldn't get up to like 10. And I, I don't know if I I don't know who gave the message. I just remember watching a video on YouTube somewhere. And someone was saying something like, Yo, the stock market closes at nine o'clock. Like I mean, like, like business is done by nine o'clock. And I'm like, dang. So I was on a call. And I said, Hey, let's get up tomorrow at nine o'clock, and let's jump on this call. And it was like, Alright, cool. So we have a bunch of people in the community, but a few people jumped on. Because I knew if I said I was just gonna wake up, I hit the alarm clock, I hit the snooze button, and I just wake up because I'm an entrepreneur, I'm free. I can wake up when I want to wake up. But I didn't like that. I didn't like that. I'm like, I looked at myself as lazy, somewhat hypocritical, because I'm sleeping all morning. So a couple of people jumped on and I was like, Yeah, let's do it again tomorrow. And some more people jumped on and said, Let's do it again tomorrow. And we went from no, it was 915. And I said, Well, let's go to let's let's start at 845. And I was like, Oh, I don't know about that one dave. 

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah That One hurts. That one hurts a little. 

David Shands  
Look less people jumped on in next week. But we got we got that, that rhythm going. And then I was like, Yo, we need to start this joint at 8 And now we're at like 745 but it was selfish. Like I needed to wake up I needed to community I needed to hear the winds I need to wake up, inspired. So now there's hundreds of people on the call, but it started with me knowing what I need. And it's growing because I'm not selling somebody something that I'm suggesting for them. I'm selling them something hey, this is working for me. I'm gonna be here. I need this. So it's not an obligation or just had a business because that was the case and everybody's told me y'all you need to yell no lie. Neil called me this morning. Because I post a flyer in the morning. Neil called me this morning said yo, you one four the calls. That's too many calls. But they don't understand this is that's like tell us my yo you're going to the gym four days this week.

Nicky Saunders  
That’s too much

David Shands  
Somebody that goes to the gym, They like what you mean? I need it. So Um, I mean, it's a wonderful community, we got so many people that connect, collaborate. It's a platform that people can give their message, I can invite my really successful friends. I don't know why. y'all haven't been on the call. Have you been on the call yet?

I know Moose hasent And I think I've been once.

Most we need you in there, man. We got a book club, probably the largest black book club in the world. And let me tell you how it works. So we read, we're reading the same book, we're all on the same boat. But we only take it a chapter at a time because I'm slow. That's fair. I don't I don't read a whole lot. Now. Before last year, I read, I read probably three books cover to cover in my whole life, right. But last year, I think we read 15 or 16 together. But it's only a chapter a day, like it's only a little bit at a time and brand She'll put the joint together and I'm like, yo, brand. That's too many pages. Let's slow that down. But I wanted to read more books because I was embarrassed to not be in the conversation when people were talking about certain books. So me being selfish again, I say, Yo, let's read a book. And let's read a little bit every day. So let's say Monday night, we're going to read a chapter Tuesday morning, we're going to discuss the chapter that we all read. And then Tuesday night, we'll read the next chapter. Then Wednesday morning, we're going to discuss the we're going to discuss the chapter that we all read, and we're literally on the same page. And it's just amazing. So I'm gonna slap my commercial for the morning meetup.com

Nicky Saunders  
There's gonna be there's gonna be few commercials, there's gonna be a few commercials out here.

Mostafa Ghonim  
It's a it's a, it's a you talk about being selfish, which is funny, right? Because it's a special kind of selfishness when you can almost get other people not almost literally get other people to improve and better their lives because of what you need. So that's a whole different conversation. But I definitely want to touch on that at some point. The question I have, though, is that along your journey, with everything that you've tried before you landed on what you're at now, you've had some level of success. There was a time when David Chan's was headlined speaker on one of ETs tours, right and toured the country pretty much speaking on that tour, there was many different versions of that journey. What is it about those winds didn't feel right, that means you keep searching?

David Shands  
Um, I mean, success is relative wins are relative, depending on who you're standing next to. So I mean, it's definitely had some wins, like so let's say, major win, make $200,000 in a year. That's a win. That's huge. I'm coming from the Cheesecake Factory making 30,000 a year. But depending on what room I'm in, depending on who I'm standing next to. It's not a whole bunch you can brag about let me tell you, and I hope this doesn't sound like a brag, but this is a true story. That helped me turn it up. So I mean, I'm grinding, I'm learning. I'm learning this marketing strategy stuff. And I was in the mall one day, and I remember it like it was yesterday. So him 500 Was there, push man Mitch was there. Neil was there CO Maddie j, we just all happened to see each other in the mall. And I'm so excited because I had like a super successful launch. And this was the first time that I made $100,000 in a month. And like, I'm just, you know, you're in the conversation, and they like having a conversation and I just couldn't wait to get in on my part and let everybody let my friends know

Nicky Saunders  
This what i did yeah 

David Shands  
Its up. so I'm like, Yeah, and I don't know how it came about. But my time like, yeah, man just had my first $100,000 month. Now I'm excited. And I want to say it was pushed man Mitch, and not even like trying to be funny or nothing But he was like, That was your first one? Now, it's not the money, but his perception of me said Yo, I thought I thought you've been killing it. I thought she was already. I thought you was like, it wasn't even really trying to be funny. It wasn't motivational. It was him out of curiosity. Like oh, wow, I thought you I thought you've been did that. And then nobody in the circle impressed. No, no, I don't know what not one person in the circle say Yo, congratulate you killing it. I said Oh, so this is where we had got it. Got it. And then I stopped being so impressed with myself and turn up the heat. Like literally turn up that moment. Allow me to turn the heat. So I said if I ever want to go to the next level, I just got to get into the next level circle. That's my formula.

Mostafa Ghonim  
How long ago was that?

David Shands  
That was 2020.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Oh recent?

David Shands  
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, yeah. Then just crazy since then.

Nicky Saunders  
So So let's, let's stay there. So what were some what were some of the first couple of moves that you did? In order to feel comfortable in this circle, even you may not still feel comfortable in that circle, but like, You got past that 100k. You know, situation you're like, Alright, I got to do some stuff. What was some of the first steps? Because some people don't even know. All right, I know I need to make more or I need to have more accomplishments to fit in, in, in this particular lane or circle, but they don't know what to do.

David Shands  
Yeah, well, I think I always feel comfortable in the circle, because I know who I am. It's not about money.

Nicky Saunders  
Facts

David Shands  
So like, I feel comfortable. I know I fit in because I add value, I add more value in some areas than anybody in the circle. And that's the first thing I just know myself, I add value. But in terms of financially, I got to ask certain questions like What are y'all doing? But you look at my business, and like, drop, drop my pride and my ego because in my box, I am the man. But outside of my box, it's just a bigger world. Right. So sometimes we we we have our accurately acclamations at Eco accolades. We have it okay. Right. But when we get outside of that box, like we have to, like humble ourselves and say, Yo, what are you doing? Take a look at this thing. It's working for my own standards. But what how would you take it to the next level, and then start paying coaches I, I went crazy pay for I pay my I paid Neo to get in his mastermind. And it ain't no little bit of money. It ain't a little bit of money. It's like five figures. Like there's 50 thousand Now to get in his mastermind, but I paid a big chunk to get into his mastermind, it was super uncomfortable. But the only reason I gave him the money is because he showed me how he gave someone else the money. He said, You'll join these masterminds work, I'll say, let me do that. Let me just model what you're doing. Because I just need to get into a different circle. So I always feel comfortable, because I know I add value. But there's always more to learn always room to grow.

Nicky Saunders  
That’s good 

Mostafa Ghonim  
Wow, how, what comes next step, what from from that transition. So financially, that happened. But I noticed there was a shift even in the message that you were putting up. So it wasn't just Dave being consistent and putting out content? No, Dave was being consistent in putting out a very specific type of content. And turning a conference into a podcast, it was a full on switch and saying, I'm going all in which what happened there or what came next to go from the person who loves to try a lot of different things to say, No, I'm going to commit for the next decade. All in

David Shands  
Yeah, good question. That really is getting in a different environment because it stretches you like I don't, it's so it's so hard to pinpoint a move, right. So one of my my boy marcus he says, Yo, just pay the money and invest more, you need to put more money into ads, you need to put more money into your craft, like, you know, if you got to pay somebody high level to get all your podcasts pay it. So I stopped being so tight with my money. And saying, yo, let's just go all out, we're gonna do an event, let's do it big. It takes the same energy to think small as it does to think big. Okay, so let's so like, understand this, it was just being an environment, you just like pick up on certain things. So my boy marquel , he'll say, Yo, we're either going to do the event for free, or we're going to do it for 5000. I'm not doing $20 tickets. If you think we're gonna do 20 $30 tickets, let's just make it free. Or we're gonna do it for 2000 3000. It's not like we're not we're not nickel and diming people, right? It's just something just something I picked up like, Okay, I got to stop doing these $10 events. $20 a 10 $20. Guy. But once I realized it, another part is me investing more, gave me the license to charge more. So it's really doing the same exact thing. But just charging more and feeling comfortable to charge more, because I invested it, like, I'm telling you to do something that I did. So if I pay $20 to get to an event, I'm on my phone. I'm not I'll get there a little late. It's just $20. If I pay 2000, same event, I'm different. I approach a different. So the best thing someone could do for me was to charge me more. Because now I'm more invested. And then once you get used to investing more, it doesn't like the the amount gets smaller. So let's just say $1,000. When you say $1,000 to somebody, it's such a big number $1,000 for an event, it's a it's just a big number to $1,000 do yall advertise on this podcast? How much you charge right now?

Nicky Saunders  
We putting that out?

David Shands  
 I mean, It might change by the time you see this, but let's just imagine me asking someone for $1,000 to advertise on a podcast was a big number, not because advertise but $1,000 itself is big to me. But once you keep investing 1000, you invest 2000, in a mastermind you invest 3000, to go to this other mastermind you go, you invest 5000 to be on a course you invest 25,000 to be in a mentorship. I can say more confidently, Oh, give me 1000 hours, it's only $1,000. So when I adopted that mindset, I was able to charge more comfortably because it's not that big of a number for me anymore. And it was just crazy. When I asked for it, people paid it so fast for 20, they'll pay. I didn't know the same person asked for 20 for. If they pay if I asked him for 2000 They'll pay that too. So I'm doing the same exact thing. It's just I felt more confidence to ask for more money.

Mostafa Ghonim  
So the information didn't change. But the mindset did or was it was it similar information you would say?

David Shands  
I said all that to say what you just said in one sentence. 

Mostafa Ghonim  
He said all of that, Right there. Go for it nicks.

Nicky Saunders  
You just had depending on when the people are listening and watching this, not too long ago, you had a huge event. Huge down in Miami, right. And I before then was virtual then before then was like I believe the very first one hence where the podcast came from. But how many people were in this last? This last event? Real quick?

David Shands  
We had about 2200? I believe about 20? To 2300? People

Nicky Saunders  
22? What was the first one?

David Shands  
550.

Nicky Saunders  
So the Okay, so thank you, they just need those stats real quick. So 550 to over 2k. Right? What how do people even get to that stage? Because some people are going to look at, oh, he did the event? He got to over 2k I could do this too. And people are not understanding those those first couple of events, even those 10 $20 events that you did, like, can you talk through the journey of having like a live event for the for the people?

David Shands  
Yeah, it's dangerous, because I mean, very few people. People don't like don't do events, because it's a very public success or failure. So if nobody comes, you can't hide it. Like if I say I'm gonna sell 100,000 books, nobody really knows how many books I sold it. I mean, it is gonna be the biggest t shirt brand in the world. Nobody really knows how many are sold. But if I say if I do an event, I set out all these chairs. And nobody's in the chairs. You can see it. So I have ah I cant believe im saying this. very, very rarely have I ever hit my number. So the first year, I said I was gonna have five, the first year I said I was gonna have 1000 We have 550 I missed the number. If I said I was gonna have 550 I would have probably had 2. Or you just go big like this year, and we said we're gonna have 3000 We had 2200 Missed the number. But like, I promote it with the same excitement every single year and it continues to grow. So first year, I said I'm gonna have 1000 We have 550 and a lot of people loved it. They were just blown away. And then the second year COVID hit and we had to take it to virtual I told him that year was gonna have 2000 I forgot how many we had. It was it was just it was a it was rough, because everybody went virtual.

Nicky Saunders  
Right.

David Shands  
It was it was weird. But yeah, so that was 2020. Didnt do anything 2021 And then 2022 We're like yo we want to 3000 people and we have 2200 now still look for still amazing, I was just absolutely amazed. I'm just going for the stars. Like I just, I just go crazy. So but here's if we're talking about how to you know what you need to do in terms of an event is you got to be good at it. Whatever it is you're talking about, just be good at it. And like publicly good at it. And then you have to get start building relationships and I have a lot of relationships. So when I do an event people say yo I want to be They're, and I don't have to ask them to promote, they just do. Right. And I've been in the community so long building a community, that when I say we're gonna do an event, yeah, we sold like 500 tickets the first day, on the morning meetup

Nicky Saunders  
Community

David Shands  
Yeah, but ive been there for a while. So, events, events are tough. I would probably suggest for somebody to kind of do some virtual stuff to kind of build your influence first. But again, I've been doing events since 2014. At these bars and lounges, moving people. So I think, I don't know if I answered the question. But yeah, events, events are tough. And it can be very discouraging. So when I was with Joe von, this was a couple years ago. And I was encouraging Joe, like, you know, do an event man, we got the venue, you already here. He said, Yes, I'm gonna do an event. It's gonna be like a game night, we're gonna do it. Yeah. You know, getting closer to the event, really, a lot of times you get discouraged, because, especially if you don't hit them numbers, you're like, oh, it's looking like, he told me the day of he was like, Yo, man, I hope it hope it storms. Because he was looking for an excuse to say, it dont work out. But you know, some people came and it was really, really cool. But I think you really, really have to have the stomach for, for an event, because it's a lot of work. And I don't know how many of those I'm going to do. Because it's so much work. And it's not a lot of, there's not a lot of financial benefit one. The impact is over a couple of days, but you got to do so much to impact these people over a couple of days. I do that on a regular basis. So I can do virtual events and all that kind of stuff without all preparation. And I can impact so many people, I can do a challenge. Like, I don't know. Y'all just had one, right? How was it?

Nicky Saunders  
It was amazing. It was only for the community, though. Yeah, it was only that's that's what I love just serving the community. So we did that. But

David Shands  
you know, my ultimate goal, though, my goal is to do an event, and not even not let anyone that's not in the community buy a ticket. It's not for everybody. Same but you know, I don't want to promote our market. I don't want I don't want to do nothing. Just if you want to community. That's an approach. CJ, with a concept too. So he aint hit me back yet, but you know

Nicky Saunders  
Come on C, I do got a follow up real quick. Sorry, moose, I gotta follow up, because I noticed everything. So can we talk about the strategy of promoting an event because I've noticed, right? Those people who are on your podcast happen to be speakers at your event, which then not only gives them a platform to say their message, but it allows content to be put on their platform and yours for a constant reminder that the event is coming, then you do some live separate lives on a on a YouTube channel that has over about 200k subscribers. Now you create a separate series, which is more content. So is there how do you go about the strategies of promoting your events?

David Shands  
Again, first, I'm going straight to the community that we built first, like first and foremost, I'm gonna let them know, in everything that I do, they get an extreme discount. First and foremost, like the tickets I want to say like for black equity cones, like $400 or something like that. That first day morning, Mina got it for 50 bucks. Today. I take care of my community, first and foremost. But how we started the first the very first conference was this actually how I started like the podcast where I'm just interviewing people who are going to be speakers at the conference, because I'm thinking if I interview the person, if I interview moose, and he's gonna like, he's going to be a speaker at the conference. People might yell I love moose. I didn't know who moose was, but I love him. And I'm like, Yeah, you want to meet moose? Like, yeah, come to the conference. He's speaking. So that was my first strategy on how the podcasts got started. If you look at them first, like 10 or 12 episodes, there's not. There's no intro to the podcast. It's like the podcast didn't even have a name. It was just Hey, y'all. We're here. I'm gonna name for this podcast. But we're going to talk about some stuff. Really look in the first few episodes. And that was my strategy. My strategy is always to elevate the people that are going to be there. Let me just promote people. This year. My goal was not to promote the speakers though. Because everybody has events. They're promoting the speakers. Oh, so so it's gonna be here. So I was gonna be there. And I was telling my partner while we were doing it, so I partner with Drew, BYOB. And then we went back and forth about this, I said, I don't really want to make flyers for the speakers. I only want to sell people on the outcomes and what they're going to learn, regardless of who's going to be teaching it. I don't want it to be like a fanfare show or like, I don't want to I don't want people to come because a certain person is going to be there. I want them to come one for the information. But two, because 3000 Other people are going to be there. And that's where the magic is. Yeah, we didn't, we didn't really promote speakers for like, a couple of weeks from the from the actual event. And Joe was like, Yo, we got to promote speakers, my I don't really want to, I want to promote community. I want to promote information, not a person. And I think it worked out really, really well, because people are buying tickets without knowing who is going to speak. And that moving forward is how I really want to promote every single conference, not for the person that's going to be there. But for the other people that's going to be there in the community and connection network.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah, I'm seeing the reoccurring theme. Now. It's funny, because in the first few minutes, you said, This podcast is likely going to be about me talking about other people to really highlight how I kind of grew my success, right. And I'm noticing that there's a consistent theme that's happening there. Let's talk about the podcast now. I mean, the podcast has grown tremendously. It kind of caught on fire and really just took off. You eventually added a partner, you found your stride in that. We also know podcasting is a multibillion dollar industry probably only going to continue to grow. What opportunities Did you see to jump into podcasting the way you did? And is it still evolving? Can we expect, say the podcast to be what it is now? For the I don't know, immediate future? Or is it going to continue to evolve and have different almost seasons of it?

David Shands  
Um, I really liked the format that we're in right now. Um, I didn't, I again, like if you look at the first few episodes, I didn't have a name for the podcast, I was just trying to promote an event. And it really took about it took about two years for me to make any money or anything. I wasn't even like looking at the growth. This, like YouTube, I'm looking at YouTube, but um, I didn't know that, like podcasts is a whole nother thing in actually, I make more from the audio podcasting side than YouTube. So if I didn't jump in, because I because I was thinking, let me start a podcast and make some money from the podcast, it was to promote an event. And then as I'm promoting the event, I'm like, dang, I love this. And what was crazy. I had an opportunity to ask people for a free coaching session.

Nicky Saunders  
So now, you teach podcasting. Right, based off the stuff that you've done. Now, my question is, like, before people start podcasting, what would be probably like, three or four things you would tell them to do before they start and publish that first episode?

David Shands  
Yeah, I help x do y by z. So I help x do y by z, I help x x is the who who is the Avatar, the type of person that you are speaking to. We're not talking to a whole lot of people we are talking to a very nice, I'm sure he learned a whole lot of that. On this Nicky and moose podcasts. I don't want to beat a drum, beat a dead horse, but I help x. So we got to really identify who we're talking to. I talked to beginning entrepreneurs, people who want to get to that next level, I'm not talking to someone that's making millions that want to make more millions. I'm not teaching you how to go from a million to a billion that's not my lane, I'm talking to the person who got a job and a dream and they're trying to bridge the gap. And I you can tell that that's not who I'm talking to, because I'm gonna give you my format. My format is when I sit down with someone really successful I'm automatically going to establish why they're on the podcast How successful are you? Is very personal quite how much money you have money made. Like what is the success? I want? I want Rico who's working at his job to look and be wowed by this person success. But as soon as we figure that out, I'm gonna take that guest back to when they were in Rico shoes. I want to know what happened from the time where you are working a job and a dream and you're trying to bridge that Yep. And then we're gonna work our way all the way back up to all this money that you made and all the success that you've had. But I've crafted that formula for my target audience. So I help X, do y, what do you want this person to be able to do? What is the what? What do you want them to be able to become full time entrepreneurs? do you want, you might say, I help. I help single parents. I don't know manage education, and connectivity with their kids, the what would be how to be connected to your child, so you know who you're talking to. And you know, what you want them to accomplish? Now, all the topics that we talked about the people that we picked the interview, we know what the goal is for this person. But how do you do it? What is your strategy? Well, we're going to do it through the podcast, and we're going to do it through a course we're going to do it through. I don't know, the podcast might have, you know, yearly retreats or something like that. So I help single parents connect with their kids, by interviewing people who have mastered it, whatever. Right. So if you come up with that statement, I think that'd be like a real beeline to your goal as a podcast.

Nicky Saunders  
Okay, you're taking notes people hope? Yeah.

Mostafa Ghonim  
That was good. What, what, what's the, and I don't know if you study anyone, or it just comes natural to you. But you talk about that format, which is really scientific, right? You're talking about getting straight to the point in the beginning, but then going back to the beginning of journey, and working your way back up? Who have you studied to really become a better interviewer and get comfortable asking people some pretty uncomfortable questions. But quite frankly, they probably connect with the audience in a real tangible way. Because it's right there on a platter for you.

David Shands  
I study a lot. Well, I didn't get that formula from anybody. I just got it from my own. I'm almost 300 episodes in so like, you do something long enough. You start developing a formula, but Larry King was so direct in your face. Yeah, it was almost like you could be having a whole nother topic of conversation. And he's gonna pop out with a very personal question. I watched David Letterman asked Jay Z about cheating on his wife. Oh, my God, the way he framed it was crazy. minute he started going like it was Wow, he started talking about a situation that he was in where he had messed up in his own relationship. And he, I mean, this had to go on for a few minutes where he started talking about it. And then he looked at Jay Z with this question. He said, Well, I was just wondering if that's something you could relate to? And I said, Now Jay, danced around. He didn't really like go in on the answer. But the fact that he asked it, fast forward, I'm in an interview with two twins. One is like they're both women. Right? One. Shot shots, swag. So one of the questions that pops up mid interview in my head in my head, I'm like, Y'all grew up together. And we went separate paths with, like, sexual preference. In for 15 minutes, I'm thinking to myself, I really want to know to answer this question. But I don't want to offend anybody. But I really want to know, so how am I going to ask this question? I'm asking questions and listening to the answer. So I can ask other questions. But in the back of my mind, I'm trying to figure out how to ask this question. And I asked it. And I think a very, very, I was proud of myself last month because I wanted to know, and I forgot how I asked it. But I remember I was relieved. I said, Who and they both laughed, they had it. It was a really, really good answered. I was like, Yo, this is amazing. I got over my fear, because I've been, again, almost 300 episodes. And I've been in scenarios where I want to ask a question. But by the end the interview, I'm upset with myself, because I didn't ask because I couldn't figure out how to do it. I say all that to say, if you do something often enough or long enough, you start to figure out some formulas. And I'll probably be way but I mean, Larry King was interviewing people 50 years. I was watching David Letterman as a child on a late night show. So of course, he's a master at asking a very personal question to a very, very successful man. I would never, I would never even hint at a question like that to Jay Z. Mr. Jay Z.

Nicky Saunders  
Mr. Jay Z

David Shands  
He's David Letterman. He's David Letterman, like you see, like, the humor that Ellen brings to serious conversations and she can she can go she can go high with you in terms of like You're having fun, she can come all the way down and be like, very vulnerable. I'm like, yo, this Arsenio Hall, he can go off script. And just like, he's at this point, he's still like pro black, I am a black man, you step out of line, this is my show. I would never, I would never attack one of my guests at the show. But he did. And it's classic stuff. So when I study the crap, but I've been doing it over and over and over and over again, so I don't see any other direction that I'm going because what we're doing right now is helping a lot of people, obviously more platform, bigger stages, bigger platforms. But I love what I do, man.

Nicky Saunders  
All right, I got it. I got to talk about the bag. Talk about the bag.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Be direct Dave.

Nicky Saunders  
So there are multiple ways of making money in podcasting, right, of course, the ads, but I love your way of maneuvering in this podcast game, not only do you do the ads, but you have specific podcast. Like, besides social proof, you have two other podcasts with the intentions of either bringing people to the community, or selling a consulting situation, and documenting the process and making it into content that gets also ads in the same way that you've been doing the podcast, please break down this, this David Chang, podcasting formula of how to get to the back.

David Shands  
Oh, for sure. Um, there's a bunch of ways. One is just continue to grow your audience because the bigger your audience grows, there will always be people who will pay whatever to get in front of your audience. So as you keep growing your audience, advertisers come average, everyday people like they come and say, Yo, I want to, you know, can you market this key, promote this, and I don't market and promote everything or everyone, but if it works out, then it works out. So just grow up growing your audience. But before we do that, we just got to have a good show, like I am really, really focused on having a good show, without anyone giving me any money, because nobody is gonna pay you for for a terrible show. And they're only not going to pay you for terrible show. Because no one's gonna watch a terrible show. So if you have a good product, you can always make money. So that's number one. Number two is some people have a business model or some sort of business that they're selling. Let's say they're selling, I don't know, coaching or coaching and consulting, let's just say for instance, support black colleges. And I gave them this idea. And they didn't do it yet. So I'll just do it and just steal a logo and just put it on my shelf. But I'm like y'all, if you have a product, right, we can build a podcast around black colleges. So I'm bringing in people who have been to HBCUs. And they're telling their stories of HBCUs. And everybody can relate to it and black culture and all that kind of stuff you fill me in at if we're talking about support and black colleges and everything black college. Well, most of the people listening probably went to a black college because they can relate. But on the other end, if you went to a black college, of course, why wouldn't you buy the apparel. So we will use the podcast as a way to build this particular clothing brand business that we're doing right now. It anybody can do it if you're a marketing if you sell marketing services or whatever. If your podcast is about giving away gems and information on marketing, of course, people are listening probably because they're struggling with marketing. And you can actually build yourself as an authority. So when they start talking about marketing or someone needs help with marketing, they're gonna go to the person that they listen to every single day. And it don't got to be an hour, hour and a half like these podcasts, right? Like, I listened to Marketing School as a podcast, its only 5 minutes, 5 minutes of gems. But I also stole that model. So right now I released five minute Fridays with David Shands on the same podcast because whether it is a million downloads, or I mean whether the show was an hour or the show is five minutes, if someone clicks play, that's a download. So some people might not want to consume an hour, but they're going to consume five minutes. Here's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that some people come on a social proof podcast or they listened to the social proof podcast only for the five minute Fridays because they got five minutes, they ain't got an hour. They take the information, go execute and can't wait for the next Friday. That's me building another listener and another download and the more downloads we have the more advertisers want to put get in front of your audience and make more money, and they'll pay you more money. So I drop in episode on Monday, Thursday and five minute Fridays, we just started that last week. And we're gonna continue that because that five minute Fridays did well, and we'll start promoting five minute Fridays, and it's not even a different podcast, here's an I'm gonna give some fuel to gain. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to. My objective is to not build the podcast, based on the podcast itself, in terms of like me interviewing people, or dropping an hour long podcast, I want to build out an experience where people have their favorite parts. So the only reason I'm doing the five minute Fridays right now is because we're going to build up some some momentum on that show. And eventually, you'll have guests come on, and do five minutes for me. One, it grows the show which grows the whole podcast, the whole, the whole podcast itself, but to if you want some exposure and marketing, you can be on five minute Fridays, get five minutes, you drop your gems, and that's some exposure for you. But you got to pay me for that. So there's gonna be information, but that's gonna be another stream. And here's what's cool. Nobody has a formula in podcasting yet. So I'm creating my own. Y'all have your own formula. Podcasting is so early, and it's so young, that you could just have fun with it. And I'm telling you that the fight every single day, right now, right now we do Monday, Thursday, before Fridays, every single day. I mean, Monday is me interviewing somebody Thursday, me and Donnie, and every other day are like short clips of the Monday and Thursday episode. But now we don't have to do Friday with a short clip, because we're doing five minute Friday. So we'll do Monday, Thursday, Friday, all new content, but the rest of the days in a week is still little clips. And eventually, we'll just fill up these little clips where it's an experience every single day. And somebody we're only going to download the podcast for five minute Fridays to join them Don't with me and Dottie, or I don't know, we might do Nicky and moose marketing and that joint be every Tuesday, and we're gonna drop that we're gonna drop content, and it's going to be an experience. And I'm not trying to build the podcast off of just interviews. The podcast needs to be an experience. And that's just how I see it right now.

Nicky Saunders  
So let's, we got to talk about this new podcast studio, you got you got it, you got to talk about it. Because I had, I had a lovely invite. And when I say super impressed, like I want to record in there, like now, in all the rooms, I have no business being in all the rooms, but um, find a reason to record in all the rooms and have a meeting and all this great stuff and record Nicky and moose live in there somehow some way? Um, why? Because you already had a spot. Right? Why and like, just the vision like that journey, because I remember when it was just like, gray bars, like it was just metal stuff in there. And now it's, it's a place that every content creator is going to want to be it like, I don't know, any content creator who wouldn't be inspired by that spot. So just break down that that that whole situation?

David Shands  
Yeah. I mean, I kind of just like announced that I am a podcast, that at some point, I think 2020 I'm like, yo, this is what I'm going all in on. And I just wanted to build out a studio. So we have a studio, but it's more like event space. And I have a partner. And there's no other business operations, but I am a creator. And I said, I just need to find a podcasting studio. It's crazy. I just idea for plug and play podcasts and studio because I started my podcast with just me was nobody else there. It's like, you set up a camera hit record. And then you do the podcast, and then it's over. So I'm like, I want to do that for podcasters. And the concept has evolved. But eventually I found a building that I could purchase. And there was literally nothing in it like no, it was just four walls, gravel floor. And I just had a vision, and I'm taking all of the money that I make in podcasting and I'm dumping it dumping it into the studio. So when I tell like a lot, all the advice that I give people, it's not coming from nowhere. I'm only telling people what I've done or what I'm currently doing. So I think I feel blessed I told us about I told this to terrica in front of her group. It's very few people that can that can do a thing and teach a thing. The people who are like teaching it typically don't do it at a high level. Anything Think about the creators and coaches. And I'm not like there's nothing wrong with them. But most of the people that teach it aren't doing it because they don't have a whole lot of time to do it at a high level, not saying that they're not good at it. Right? They've, you know, reach some wild success, and now they're teaching it. But you have these other people that are doing it. And they're not teaching it because they're too busy killing it doing the thing. Right. Like, I don't know, I don't know if you have a course on podcasting?

Nicky Saunders  
Nope.

David Shands  
So you're probably too busy killing it, like doing the thing. Yeah, I'm not teaching right now. And there's times and seasons for everything, right. So like, the people that are killing it are killing it for a reason. Because their, their focus is in divided. It's like, Yo, I'm just gonna kill it. But I feel like, like Terrica, for example, she's someone that can keep killing it, like she's gonna keep buying property, and keep teaching it, which is extremely difficult. So I have to like not only keep teaching podcasts, but my podcast has to keep growing, or I'm a hypocrite, or I'll feel like I'm a hypocrite. And I told my morning Meetup group, I'm not the money that's made from the morning meetup will never outweigh the businesses I do outside of here. Because I'm gonna keep building a business and keep teaching you guys, you got to pay me to teach you, but I'm gonna keep building. So don't think like, my whole entrepreneurial career is based on you pay me every month, I'm going to get the game and bringing it back. So the studio just says to me that I'm not just saying that I'm invested in this thing. I am serious. And if I'm going to be the king of podcasting, at least got to have my own studio. I at least, I'm not I'm not leasing it. I'm not a I'm not renting it, I bought the building. And that every single wall that you see in there was built from the ground up, no loans. It was all the money from podcasting that I dumped into that thing. And now he's gonna go to a whole nother level, and be able to teach people more effectively. And it's just up and it's just another entrepreneurial thing that I get to learn, grow and come back and teach to my community. So that's, that's my whole life. That's all I've ever done.

Nicky Saunders  
Is it is officially open yet.

David Shands  
Not yet.  By the time this, this, this airs, it will be for sure.

Nicky Saunders  
Okay, look.

David Shands  
You’ll get an invite to the grand opening,

Nicky Saunders  
what is called Let let the people know, so they could continue to Google to find out when it's open.

David Shands  
The creators clubhouse is the creators clubhouse. So this is a quote on the wall that says there are millions of people that will love to pay you if only they knew you existed. So our objective is to help people know that you exist not to go find customers, but to make it easier for customers to find you. And if we create more content just makes it a lot easier to find you.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Man, Dave, we're coming up on 100 episodes, man, we've done a lot of episodes, a lot of Interviews.  Yeah, thank you so much, man. But I say that to say this is probably one of my favorite conversations. And I'm not just putting that out there. I think for you know, the way that our concept came together, we started in COVID. It was almost something to do when everything was shut down. And of course, Kobe had just passed and we were like, man, everyone talks about giving people their flowers while they're still here. Why don't we actually do something about it? And why don't we similar to what you've done pretty much throughout a lot of your career, highlight people that we know, we only interview people that we know, believe it or not. So why don't we highlight people that we know and give them their flowers while they're still here? So let me say this as my portion of handing you your virtual flowers, man it's been incredible to watch your journey and more importantly I see the change I think the mat the maturity just there's just something different about your aura and your energy and the way you're, you know really navigating right now and it's incredible, bro. I think you're just getting started. And I'm excited to see where you go. But I've also been watching and I know that you've had some big name guests on your podcast as well Grant Cardone Dame dash to name a few. What is the biggest lesson that you've learned from one of your guests?

David Shands  
Man easy. Naveen Jain bro Naveen Jain was a bunch. But Naveen Jain he started talking about obsession. And he said, passion. He said passion is for losers. Passion is for the average person. Everybody's passionate about something. But when you really tap into that obsession when you are obsessed about something, that's when it grows. And I think that my, the people around me understand my obsession, right I still make time for my family and things of that nature. But like there's there's an obsession here with content creation and podcasting and community. So he helped me to understand that it's okay, if I really, really want to take something to the next level. I'm going to have to be obsessed with it. Myron explained to me that anytime you're focused on something, everything is going to be out of balance. And he said, if everything is in balance, you're probably not focused. So if you're building a business, if you're focused on building a business, family life is probably going to be slightly out of balance is going to be some David you still working? You're not coming home yet. Like what? Like there's, there should be some friction there. Because your focus because stuff is out of balance. Now, I do hope that one day, my whole life is in balance and in harmony. But that means I no longer have to focus on anything or business can be out of balance, but I'm focused on family at this point. And that's cool. So Grant Cardone just relentless. When someone is almost like, he doesn't hear the word no, you know what i mean. Like if he's worth something, and someone tells him he can't have it. It's almost as if they never said no. Know what i man. There's there's literally so much I could go. Oh my gosh, Neo, He taught me the ebook play and just making marketing so so simple. taught the Wall Street Trapper he talked, he talked through how some people are simply playing the wrong game. Like a game is being played. And you're playing the wrong game. Imagine you're on a basketball court, and you start like, you punt the basketball like as a football. You're like, yeah, you're, you're playing the wrong game. Everybody else knows the game but you like it just, there's so many. There's so many. Literally every episode that I'm doing in the moment is my favorite episode. Dan Henry episode was incredible. in Dan Henry Oh, what if I had to like put a top five I would definitely say Dan Henry's joint was top 5. But that might change.

Nicky Saunders  
Oh if Yeah. Wait, you didn't even say the official name of your of your podcast. He just dropped the name of the podcast. Talk morning meet up all day.

David Shands  
Social proof podcast, y'all tap in social proof. To download Follow button on all social on all podcast platforms, Spotify, Apple, please, would appreciate support.

Nicky Saunders  
It's going to be plugged in probably two more times because I got two more questions. Real quick questions. One. Top three tree? What did what? What kind of just do tree top three branding and business books that you've ever read?

David Shands  
Hmm. Top three branding and business books. Well, we just got done reading the psychology of money, which was probably that that was one of my favorite books all year. It was just comprehensive. It was really really cool. Um, what else? What else? Goodness gracious. Slight Edge by Jeff Olson, one of my favorites. Oh my gosh, in the holy grail of business books and entrepreneurship books is How to Win Friends and Influence People. Because business is simply a people game. Like if you if you understand how human beings operate, and how to talk to them. Oh my gosh, the whole world unlocks for you. So yeah, top one book of like, any list that I have or books is How to Win Friends and Influence People. Slight Edge just in there and psychology of money is new. A new one for me.

Nicky Saunders  
Dave, you know, I love you. You have been amazing not only in my own journey, but like for for culture for what you've been doing. And so for who normally we let moose do final words, but I'm gonna let you do final words where can people follow you go to the podcast, all that great stuff, but as well as just the final words for the people.

David Shands  
Oh, absolutely. Um, I'm really passionate about podcasting. So, of course I have something to say share with you all podcasters blueprint.com When I put together I took out everything that I thought would be needed for someone to really launch and have a successful podcast. I got to figure out a way to make it a a I got to figure out a way to make it a an affiliate for Nicky and moose. So you are supporting Nicky and Moose. Okay, so don't just go to the website, just click the link below use promo code. What's the promo promo codes gonna be? Because I gotta give young people a discount. Of course.

Nicky Saunders  
We'll say we'll say queens, we'll say queens

David Shands  
Queens. Okay. So yeah, so use promo code Queens. And not only does that promo code, give you a discount on the course but it also put some money in Nicky and Moose pocket so they can support so you guys can support the podcast. So I think that's really, really important. But yeah, just please go subscribe to the social proof podcast, man, just type in social proof podcast, on YouTube, podcasts, Apple, Apple, podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you listen to podcasts, please, please, please go check it out and be inspired. It's I've helped the podcast itself, not me. But the podcast itself has helped so many people one on the side of the listener, like people who have like been inspired and motivated to continue to make more money in a business or they found somebody that they figure it out, I can do what they're doing. And they're running the play, they're executing. But on the other side, there's some people don't really deserve to be highlighted as killing the game. And I feel that it's our duty on our show to highlight people who deserve it. So yeah, man. And if you want some constant motivation, inspiration, you can be a part of our community the morning meetup.com Download the app, morning meetup app. I'll see you in the morning.

Nicky Saunders  
That's that's your final words. That's the final words. That's final words people.

David Shands  
Someone Hey, excellent. Nicky, can you give us some final words? Please? I'd love to hear how it's really done.

Nicky Saunders  
Alright Moose final words.

Mostafa Ghonim  
He said nicky

Nicky Saunders  
That's not the format that don't miss it. He talked about the format. Talk about the format.

David Shands  
I want to hear some final words from Nicky.

Nicky Saunders  
Final words regardless of technical issues, regardless of how wack your Wi Fi is, how bad your camera is the lighting the audio, consistency wins over everything. That's what I'll say for the final words.