Episode 81 - From Frustrations To Billions

Nicky Saunders  
whats poppin whats poppin whats poppin welcome to Nicky and Moose. I'm Nicky, that’s moose. What's up moose? and welcome to episode 81. Let me tell you about this episode because it's really dope, right? We got is a copying or inspiration we're going to ask this question, we're going to have this great conversation, bring some Floyd Mayweather combo into it. We're going to talk about what's next for death row and Snoop Dogg. He's been doing crazy stuff, right? Um, when you're frustrated, can you make 3 billion? I'm just I'm just saying Can a frustration equal up to $3 billion? And then of course, we got to talk a little business talk and to scale or not to scale that is the question moose How are we feeling about this episode?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, now we were going to the pre show clips and I'm like yeah, no, this is this is lining up to be another special one. So yeah, I'm excited for this is gonna be dope.

Nicky Saunders  
Let's get into this intro

Jaymie Jordan  
Two kids from Queens cut from a different cloth now joining forces helping you to elevate your personal brand Yeah, I'm talking about Nicky and moose bringing you a never before seen perspective instead the mindset the mentality the behaviors the driving force, more importantly the stories behind the people and brands that you know love the most

Nicky Saunders  
And you know what time it is it is the review of the week so we got first time listener Today was my first time listen to the podcast already knew it was a be good base off the Instagram page. Always dropping gems. Bravo. Guess our Instagram page is impressive. You feel me shout out to Kurt for that. Let's let's give Kurt guys shoutout to Kurt. So, of course shout out to all our audio listeners. Shout out to all our viewers. Whether you're watching this on YouTube, Facebook, wherever you're watching this, we appreciate it. All the way. Moose. How are you feeling?

Mostafa Ghonim  
I'm feeling pretty good. Thank you for asking. I was very proper. I was very Yeah, it is. We're recording on Easter Sunday. As you can see my outfit. You might want to go back about a year, baby but be honest, almost almost a year ago like 10 months ago. Okay, Nicky, Nicky said oh, like you sure you should wear it on Easter. It gives me Easter vibes. And so and so. I stay true to my promise I brought it back on Easter. Hello. Hello, everyone. Thank you. Thank you.

Nicky Saunders  
So all my audio listeners. If you want to just see a clip of it on on YouTube, you you will understand and Isaiah if you could find that clip where I said that? I don't know if it was on was it on live or was it on an episode?

Mostafa Ghonim  
I want to say it was no it was on episode for sure. Okay, we're gonna episode Yeah.

Nicky Saunders  
It's like yeah, I think so. If you could find that clip, and we put it together that'd be super dope. So make sure you guys watch that on on our social media me. I am sick. So I'm gonna do this disclaimer. Is a cold No, I don't have COVID Don't Don't go there. already had it. Never getting it again. Never. Okay, never. But um yeah, I'm I'm trying here. I'm trying to share I still stay healthy. But it's not. I did have like cookies and cream shake and made me felt feel amazing. You know, when your throat hurts. I'm just like, I don't feel like I always have to have tea and everything like that, like ice cream should should make ice cream

Mostafa Ghonim  
Ice cream does help when you got a little. Yeah, that's right.

Nicky Saunders  
Right. And when I told I don't know other people, they're like, No, you can't do that. I'm like what? Mothers always told me to have ice she gave me ice cream when my throat hurt.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, no, I agree with that. I was a little sick yesterday I got some ice cream and I was like yeah, I felt good. And it was it helped.

Nicky Saunders  
So when you get there you get a cold people have ice cream. Go to Chick fil A cream. Oh Coldstone wherever you wherever you get your ice cream or yogurt, you know, whatever. best fits you but yeah, go do that. Okay, they'll do that. Anyways, let's get into this episode. I pose a question to you, and pose a question. Okay. I saw this on, on Instagram shout out to punch from TD, he was talking about art, but I think this is a very good combo is what is the difference between inspiration and stealing? We all take from the greats and our peers alike. I'm just curious, where is the line? So, so moose? Um, what is what is your take? What is your take?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah. So I think it is true, right? Like, to some extent, it's like that same idea of when we say self made, but in reality, no one is self made. We've all taken information in spirit, something from someone, and we've used it to help build what we have today. Right? That's That's my belief across, you know, most cases. Now, in this case, I think it's the same thing. But where I would draw the line is, did you add something to it? Or did you present it in a new way? Right. So I think of, for example, some things that, say work created 50 years ago, they didn't have say, some of the technology that exists today, whether it be the easiest to think of is web three, or just the NFT space or kind of the metaverse and that whole, that whole realm? Well, if I can take an old experience, and revitalize it in something that didn't exist in that way, it's like it's almost to rep to present it in a new way. For an audience that appreciates it. I can see that is okay. I didn't necessarily just steal I'm bringing it back. And of course, given credit to I think that matters. Like if you just like, if, if if someone took your stuff, and they presented it in a new way, but didn't give credit credit to the original person or the source, then it's like, okay, that was a straight up, steal it. So I do think there's the adequacy part, that's tied to a to when when you're going to do that, you got to give credit to the source for the origination of the idea.

Nicky Saunders  
And I think it gets when I started thinking about it, I think it gets a little tricky, right? Because it's like, we're, we're always taught to, and I've said it myself to take from here and there and put it in a box. Ramble it up. And here you are, right. Um, but is that that part that you took? Is that stealing? If you like, I think we look at the overall of, okay, one person style, one person's creation or whatever, if you take the entire thing, right, like, then you then you jacking, and then you're, you're copying, right. But if I take from here, and I take from here, I take from here and I take, I'm still take, I'm going to different if you want to think of like retail stores. I'm going over to this bodega, and I'm taking a Snickers and I'm going over here, and I'm getting the zebra cake. I'm going over here getting the quarter water, I'm getting this and everything and boom, I got my I got my meal for the day. That's very unhealthy meal. This is when I was a kid don't judge me and I wasn't stealing. This is not a real life example. But I'm going all these other places getting one thing to have a whole joint, right? And I'm like, what isn't that still so it made me think but we got a clip, of course from some people will argue with the greatest of all time when it comes to boxing. This is what Floyd Mayweather said.

Floyd Mayweather  
I will see so many legendary fighters. And but I never want to be like no fighter. I just I just said I like what different fighters there's so many different fighters there has, I mean, that was you know, that was great to me. And I took a little bit from all of ‘em and just put it in the bowl of shook it up and say this what I’m gone be

Nicky Saunders  
and so I'm like what's what like I agree with this to say, I'm just playing devil's advocate. What is it stealing? I agree with let me take here and there because it's a remix is not the original. Right when you do when you do that. We think of music when there's a remix song. It's not the original song that takes inspiration from the the original song, add some new people and boom now it can be almost better. I remember back in the day when And the remixes were always better than the original song, right? Um, some of the clothes that come out the remix to that to the original seems to always be better. So I think it's, I think with everything, things evolve. And so when you do that formula is not necessarily copying, or stealing. It's, I'm inspired, and I'm trying to make this particular part of the industry or the game or whatever better. Because you've already created the foundation, you've already laid out what's supposed to happen, and now I know what it is. So I'm just going to elevate it by taking the from the best and showing the world what it's supposed to be. Because we go, you know, I've been verbal saying, I learned from leaders of what not to do, and that what makes me better, not what was already done. I've taken I've taken a few from that. I think some good traits are are good to replicate. But I learned more from what I don't want to be. Because that's what's missing. So it I mean, it just depends. It depends on what you look at it.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I think another thing is a lot like fashion, too, right? Like, if you notice, the fashion industry is always recycling their trends. Yep. So something that might have been out of style. A couple seasons ago, it's gonna find its way back into the trend or the most current thing. So I think there's a lot like that. But there's got to be an I think the one thing that we haven't mentioned, when we talk about what's the fine line is, how much of your originality Are you bringing to an idea, right? Because it's like, okay, it's cool. You're taking from the grades are you taking from what not to do? Or taking from a variety of different people? But did you take from everybody and leave out yourself? It's like, you know, at some point, you want to also make sure that you're adding what the main formula is you and this law, okay, like I think of when Kanye in his documentary, so he went through that accident. And as he was sitting there in the hospital, he said, I want to be the best dressed rapper, right? So high fashion, so So Okay, cool. He, his music came from that, but then that desire to want to add an extra element to it, there's enough of him in it, that when you add these other layers to it, yeah, it brings more, more appeal. Maybe you become more marketable as a business or a brand or a personal brand. But don't take from everybody else. Don't leave out yourself, because I think that's the part that makes it kind of, you know, bland, and another one that comes to mind is Tobe, it's like, okay, Tobe. Yeah, well, we can say what Tobe just like any other rapper, musician. Sure. He's great. He's gifted his talent. But it's like, no, he wanted to keep, say, his Nigerian, is for really tied into it. And so he brings that to life. And it's like, oh, that's different. That's cool. But it's so him. And I don't think nobody can really, you know, rock that piece. So I think that, that probably, that's probably what draws the line there. It's like, did you just take it and just just simply applied it? Or did you take it and you added pieces of you in there to keep it original enough? And then put it out that it was like, okay, yeah, this is different and refreshing.

Nicky Saunders  
I agree. And our listeners and viewers just let us know what what's your take on, you know, inspiration or stealing? Let us know, let us know. But I'm going into inspiration, right. Snoop Dogg has been doing crazy things. Um, ever since he got Death Row. All I've been seeing is NFT drops. Like all the time he is releasing new music from the label as NFT's I know recently. He is coming out with a either came out or it's about to come out where it's not even going to be on Ethereum. It's going to be on CarDonna, the ADA coin right. He's dropped something. If that went over your head, don't worry about it. Bring it back. I promise you. Um, excuse me, but he is I think taking a page from Kanye West may have thought about it before, but he was recently on drink champs. And here is what he plans on doing with different

Snoop Dogg  
plants everything therefore off traditional iTunes apple butter Patapon take the different catalog to gala games, the company that I put in the metaverse, that's where it lives at in the metaverse didn't build a death row app. So we can be like Netflix, Amazon, and we have an app all of our content visual, all of our music, and now instead of Apple or Spotify, and all the pimping, some new pimp on a blocks.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Bottuh buttuh

Nicky Saunders  
Bottuh my question is, is this what we are going to expect? Not just in music, but like, everywhere, like, are we once once established, because what I don't want people to think is like, alright, poem, I'm going to do, you can, I'm not saying you can't, boom, I'm gonna do this all on my own network on this on that. You can. But the people that we've we've spoken about already have already established platforms. And so the audience's bill, and now they're like, You know what, I'm gonna take back what I need to all my stuff. And I'm create my own platform platform. And I'm going to take in majority of the stake and profits and keep it that way. I love what, like I said, I love what he's doing with the metaverse and NFTs and releasing music off of these and not necessarily relying on you know, when are we dropping the album when we dropping the single when we drop the he's doing it? And he's even talking? If if you see the drink champs interview talking about doing a collab with bad boy in NMT world in the metaverse, too. So my question is, is like, is this where we see everything? Kind of going into like go? I'm going to take more of a control of it. And just partner with other people? Because like you said, he has the the metaverse, people that he rocks with partner with people in order to make it come alive.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I think I think you're gonna see a lot more of it until the deals become more equitable. So you're gonna see people wanting to say, yeah, no, I'm breaking off on my own, to build my own network or to put it on my own platform up until the big players in the marketplace. So you know what, all right, we're losing some of our biggest stars, like, you got to imagine that Apple is going to take a tremendous hit, if Kanye was to no longer allow his music to stream on their platform. Right. So it's like the same thing with with Jay Z. At one point when he didn't give his music to Spotify. There was a period of time. I remember that because I was I was a little upset at the fact that I was subscribed, Spotify. I'm like, Man, I can't get no, Jay. But it's like, at some point

Nicky Saunders  
Shout out to apple and title 

Mostafa Ghonim  
yeah, exactly. Exactly. And the only thing that kept me back man was was my playlists. I was like, Yeah, I put so much time in crafting these playlists. I don't want to I know somebody out there feels he's like, you know, when I go to a new, whole new platform, I can't take my playlists with me. They got to come up with something for that. You transfer your playlist to the new, the new platform. But But no, I don't think that's going to be the case. But the other part of it too, because I thought you were going to speak to it real quick there is. I don't know that that's the move for everybody. Right? Because Because and we had a little conversation last week, where everyone would a platform or a network, their shows cannot be the only shows on the network, you're gonna start to see that they need to acquire other shows other content, there's got to be more things on there. So it's like imagine if Netflix only had Netflix Original. What they don't are the other way around. Imagine if they had to rely on other movie companies or Hollywood studios and these people and these people to give them movies to stream that then they would have been relying on someone else to stimulate their business model. So Netflix goes out and creates their own original content so that they can have a little bit more of input to the demand. So I think that's one The challenges about platforms that a lot of people don't talk about everyone is against so big on ownership, which is great. We're big advocates for ownership. But there's a big part of the responsibility that comes with it. And that is, if I have the means to be able to develop a new technology or a new platform, am I able to also bring on other talent and other content that is going to help keep my subscribers or my people who are you know, paying to view or maybe, what do we call it? I guess you'd call it subscriber like, yeah, you subscribe to someone's platform or service? Are you going to be able to keep them so that they're not just signing up? Used to happen? I'm sure when we were younger, we all did it, you sign up, you use the free trial, and you watch if you're in and out, and not like a smooth criminal, and it's like, Yo, that is and I think

Nicky Saunders  
peacock I did that to you.

Mostafa Ghonim  
You know, I'm like, yo, that that's a part of the business that we need to think about this, like, yo, it's not just about building my platform, I actually have to think about how can I create something that my favorite word is sustainable? By, you know, it's able to survive for a minute, I'm bringing on new content, I'm keeping it fresh, because that's, that's a no, that's a no joke. process.

Nicky Saunders  
And I think that's why it's important to grow that audience, you know, like, grow that audience first, if it's good, if you have that core audience already, you don't necessarily have to worry about the curious subscribers. Right, that to start off, just not saying it's not possible, because I've seen it happen, right. But an easier route is having, you know, for for, let's say, we've talked about it the core 1000 followers, right 1000s of sport supporters. And when you do that, no matter what you drop, they're going to support it, they're going to be there, they're loyal, where if you just start marketing, and not brand yourself and not have a following as it is, then you're always going to be chasing the rabbit, you're always going to be like, Okay, well, where's the next subscriber coming from? How are we marketing this, are we putting this now you're spending a lot more money in order to get you know, your, your subscribers and listeners and clients and customers were? Okay, let me just nurture these people for a bit, drop it, and know that a percentage of them is going to bite off of it. Death Row has clearly made a statement in culture. So whatever it's going to be, maybe, of course, going on the big platforms like Apple and Spotify, of course, you'll get bigger numbers. But maybe it's more profitable just to go direct to consumer. And they're okay with that, because they've already put a stamp on culture, they've already made their mark of how important they are in the industry. So when you look at, okay, is this going to be a move for me? Like, can I pull a snoop with death row? Can I pull a Kanye? I think you can. I think it's all about timing. I think it is being strategic with how you go about the ownership. How do you go about the say, taking it off of a big platform? Because big platforms are, are an a corporate way of saying collaboration. That's all it is, is a corporate way of saying collaboration. And so you're using their resources. Have you milked out the resources enough to where you could do it on your own we saw with with Russ, when we spoke about it, of course we the two that we just spoke about and a lot of people that we spoke about on this on these podcast episodes, but have we milked that all the resources that we made the right connections to where we are not doing this dolo that we've partnered from behind the scenes to run it on our own, have the right team and then In, you know, work that kind of way. If that is the truth, then the success is only going to be like it, it will only happen. But I rather have. I know there's going to be people there, because I grew this naturally. And by doing other collaborations and partnering with other people beforehand, in order to make this successful, so, but for my people who are like, Nah, I want to control it now. And I want I'll do the long game, the standard third? Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm not saying either either or is right or wrong. I'm saying you could do it at a very strategic way like these individuals have, and see the benefits of growing the platform first, getting the audience first making the right connections first. And then let me take that all back, though. Let me let me give me that. Let you I let you rock with it for a little bit. But give me that.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, no, that's fine. I like how you put that.

Nicky Saunders  
But of course, that all comes from frustration. Right? It comes from frustration. Of Yo, I could get more for myself, I could do this. But and a lot of these solutions come from frustration, and we actually got a $3 billion company made from frustration. You probably heard of it, you probably used it yourself. Calendly. Most you use it you you guys currently. All right, but there's no promoted them. But

Mostafa Ghonim  
to help contribute to the 3 billion. 

Nicky Saunders  
Look, there it is. But the owner to pay to pay at the T O P E, don't ask me to say that last name. But he did a really dope interview, and spoke about how this company got a value of 3 billion. And just some advice. So let's get into that.

Tope  
The idea for the company came from a frustrating experience I had trying to schedule a meeting. So I was looking to schedule a very important customer meeting. And you know, many, many days later, and many, many emails later, we're still we're no closer to find in a time. This inspired me to really learn about the problem of scheduling and why it was so difficult. And out of that sort of investigation came this obsession with solvent scheduling. Since then the product is evolved into more than scheduling into sort of what we call automating the media lifecycle. One of the lessons I learned very early on in starting businesses is that first thing you want to do is when you see a problem take action, rather than wait for somebody else to solve a problem. There's no reason why you can't take a stab at solving it yourself.

Nicky Saunders  
So my question to you. Yeah, isn't that easy? Like, I have a frustration I make a make a business out of

Mostafa Ghonim  
it? Well, we've heard we've heard that saying, Come come true. A lot. Like a lot of people actually start businesses because they wanted to overcome a challenge that they themselves experienced. So it's like they created it for themselves. Now, what comes next is usually a surprise, because you don't know how it will play out. But it's simple. But complicated, right? Because it's like I imagine with something like this when you're talking, especially a tech product, right? You're talking possibly raising funds and and like once you go down that whole route, I think it becomes a different ordeal. But it can be that simple from an idea standpoint. And we talked about this in, in in, what's your group in the metaverse right about the concept of ideation. So it's usually is the simpler or easier format to follow. It doesn't have to be extremely new or very, you know, like, it's never been done before. A lot of the best ideas are usually just an add on. So it's like Gmail. Gmail has a calendar, or Google has a calendar feature. But maybe it didn't allow you to schedule a meeting. Right? So it's like, okay, well, let me take this same function and add this ability to schedule a meeting with someone and avoid double booking. And oh, let me then be able to pair it or bring it back with my other calendar so that they're all centralized and peered in one place. So I do believe from an ideation standpoint, ideas are best when they do have that personal challenge because then there's like a lot Have a lot of passion or energy that you give to it, that you typically wouldn't. And then it's, it's an add on to something else. So even and this is where probably self awareness comes into play, because I've noticed that I am at my best when I can have an older model to work off of. So it's like, I'm not the type of person who can take something who can take nothing, and then present you with something from like, from scratch and be like, Yo, I made this out of nothing. This is all in my head, this is the vision that I saw. And here it is. But if you give me an older model of something, that I can wrap my mind and really understand it and know the ins and outs of what's happening, I can then start to critique, oh, this would be better. And we need to do this for our function and our use for our own business and our own brand. And then I'm able to kind of build to it. So that's like my type of ideation. Take something old or something that that already exists, innovate, add to it, and bring it to life in a way that's more user friendly for you and your customers. So I agree with that model. But the build out of such a thing is the part that can get live. Oh, interesting. little interesting, but

Nicky Saunders  
I think I think it is it's good to hear how simple something is start. Yeah, saying that's the whole solution. Like, oh, yeah, I'm frustrated. I couldn't, like do my meetings. So quickly. I was like, how about this time? No. How about this time? How about this time? Right? You know what? The word? Let me create this business. Give me about a few days. But I'll give you a solution right? Now saying that my man bootstrapped the whole situation. To what 200k From his savings and started it up. And now it's it's worth 3 billion. He does have I think, two investors later on, you know. But what I like is just, and I've been guilty of this myself, where it's like, Oh, someone figured it out. You feel me? Like if I thought of it? Because I've always heard like, if you think about it, somebody's already done already there. Yeah, like, but where did they come from?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Right. Like, probably not the best. Yeah, not the best advice.

Nicky Saunders  
But where did it come from? So how's everybody still? Till this day, inventing something new? If what you think of somebody's already done? I don't? I don't know. So I do like, and I wanted to bring it on as far as less. Let's think simple because it can be that simple. We can start with just something that frustrates us. We just start with something that like, hurts us real quick, like, oh, man, I stubbed my toe. How do I stop? And I stopped this feeling? Like, what if there was something that would instantly stop the feeling of a stubbed toe? Because that is the worst feeling? Um, but like, things like that. Kim, do we have even a notebook of just some of the things as frustrated as some of the ideas that we have? And can we go back to it and be like, can I put if I put some money on it, if I put some time on it? You know, if I ask some questions, can this be something? Yeah. And is it worth? You know, um, is it worth going about? Like, some ideas? Not our worth all our time? You know, we just be like, Oh, look, what about if a if a coffee pot can steam all the way up? Come all the way down and transform into a cup of coffee? What's up? What? Yeah, have a weird nation have a very deep? Yeah, just to do, but but, you know, things like that. But can we? Can we stop minimizing our ideas? Can we stop minimizing ourselves and saying, Oh, somebody's going to do that. It's already been done. Don't worry about it. It's not like we probably have had million billion dollar ideas and just not work on it. Not do anything big. So

Mostafa Ghonim  
I like to think so. I got a question for you. though, do you do you think? ideas or imagination is a loser, use it or lose it type of situation where if you're not constantly sitting there, like you said, practicing like, Okay, here's a frustration, I'm gonna write this down. Here's an idea. I'm gonna write this down. Do you think if you don't do that regularly, you can get to a point where you're just not good at being a visionary or having ideas or using your imagination? Is it like a use it or lose it? type thing? Or is that something that, you know, some people have it? Some people don't?

Nicky Saunders  
Know, I think everybody has an imagination. You know, it's what we what power do we give our imagination? Yeah, you know, I'm not. There's so many ideas I've had, that I did not write down. I'm so mad at It and can't remember. Right? And I know they were fired. I Know, I've told you half of them. And I'm like, I can't remember none of them. So I'm getting better at like, audio Note, or typing in notes real quick, right? But I think what we some of the smallest things is an idea. You know, a thought is something that we could, if we took a step further, can be an amazing idea. But some people don't look at it like that. Or some people just be like, whatever we go, based off facts, I'm gonna go based off this. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think each of us still have that kid mentality of having an imagination. We just don't tap into it. Yeah, that's it is an if we put more power to it, and we don't feel dumb, and we don't feel, you know, goofy for thinking. So crazy. Like, can there be an app where when we look up, and and once again, I was about to say there probably is, right? I'm gonna imagine Yeah, like, already? Is there an app that when we look at the clouds, and we see all these different shapes, we actually see the shapes that come to life. So like, when we pretend like we see that dog or something, the dog comes to life in the clouds, like, what? Like, I would love that, right? The kids would love that. So write it down, that I think at my age does, that's goofy Nikki, and super goofy. For other people, they be like, Yo, I'm super in love with looking at the clouds for my mental health. I think that would be fire. You know, I'm, so what you may think is goofy. And dumb. Is is somebody's like, out healthy outlet, you know, or solution for something, or just a talking and conversational point. But we just, you know, as, as we get older, or because of our environment, it just may not be, we may not think it's as accepted. So it's not that we're not visionaries, or having imagination. It's just that we're not tapped into it.

That's good. I think that's a problem right there. We, we, we don't create for kids, we don't think of children. Now, I feel like if we as as business people had the next generation, or children in our minds, as we do that, as far as like creating for their benefit, and for their well being, I do think would be a little bit more, you know, just a little bit more productive. Because Because it's like, as you as you as you were talking, I'm like, Man, I guess imagination is, to some degree, an extension of your hope or your faith, right? Because you are imagining something that you believe could be better, or could exist in a way that it hasn't done before. So it brings to life that which you are missing or wish you can experience so it's an extension of your hope or your faith because it's not anything that you see per se so it's cool, but it is powerful, though, because I feel like there was a time where I definitely had like some of the like the things that you talked about, like some radical off the wall ideas. And then as of late I'm like, goofy Yeah, I'm like, man, what happened bro? Like, you even think anymore? And I'm like, Nah, no, I think like my brain is functioning but I just don't get those same You know, super dreamy type ideas of wanting to bring something to life that's not there. So I'm like, it makes you wonder like, you know, there's got to be different types of imagination and all that good stuff. 

I think with you, it's more of you want to expand what is already Creative, like the models that are already there. Like, for those people who don't know, if, if there is a word of 2022 for moose is tech. Yeah, all he says now, tech, to tech, have tech that we're gonna have tech house and like everything is tech. Right. Right. Right. Right. So that is because he's seen it be done and how those people who do tap into tech is, I wouldn't say better. But like, the profits make more sense, then someone have a manual situation. Right. So that's just facts off of that, right. I think and this me personally, you you've moved off of dreams before. Right? And you're like, yeah nah, let me go. I've done the dreams I seen as in the vision, the vision was great. bought into the vision. I am now over here with tech. Because tech. I, I see it not necessarily touch it, but I see it. I seen the impact. I see what it could do. I see we could create our own algorithms and, and solve certain things that I don't necessarily have to manually input all the time, manually go over here. So I think it's not that you don't dream or can't think of those things. I think you've had your season. Yeah, for sure. And this is just a different season, maybe next season, you go back to the dreaming.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, I'm optimistic about it. I'm optimistic, but not for sure. Tech vibes all 2022.

Nicky Saunders  
Oh, my goodness now. Okay. We me and moose have had these types of conversations for a while, have to scale or not to scale, right? There's certain models that we have that are very scalable. If done, right. And then there's other stuff like, super custom. That is like how do you scale? And can it be successful? If you can't scale? Like, how much of a lifespan does it really have? How long can you do it? And so I saw a really dope interview with the owner of Kiss, which is Rodney. I don't want to mess up his last name. But F I E, G, however you pronounce that on, ya know, I'm bad with last names. And he said something that is conversation worthy. So let's get to it

Rodney Fieg   
was never even meant to happen. So now that it did happen, it's like this is still my baby. And it's still meant to keep special. And it's not some things aren't meant to scale. Some things aren't meant the skill, the idea is not to compete. The idea is to maximize the potential of what I'm doing with doing it tastefully, and not hurting the brand in the process.

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah, yeah. And it's funny, I just started looking some stuff up because I wanted to confirm I thought before I go into it, because I love this, like from a strategy standpoint for what they're doing, I think is phenomenal. Right? Like they, they understand who they're for. But the other piece of like, that's a big battle that everybody has, because today we all equate success to scalability, right? We say like, Hey, is and I've said that too. And I probably need to change my wording because it's not just scalability. It's sustainability, right? Like it's one thing to grow something. It's another thing to sustain it over time. And both are success by the way, like those are two different definitions as success they look into tirely different, but they're both just as impressive and both are just as impactful. You get to choose which is right for you. But when we are all just working towards scale, scale, scale, scale scale, you put yourself in a lot of trouble. Here's what I know about scale. Especially for kind of like when we used to have that conversation, I want to say about two or three years ago, my question was always, how do you? How do you scale a customer experience? How do you scale a customer's customer experience, and I was simply trying to figure out, the only way this particular product would work is if it required some level of a hands on approach or a tailored approach specific to the individual, there wasn't a one size fits all type answer, like you can try to mold it and bend it, but it just wouldn't be as effective. So I was always asking that question, the mistake that we made in the process, especially as I look back on it now, now, we were still trying to reach millions. And we kept our price points low, knowing that it will cry or to tailor our approach. So it's like, imagine, imagine tailored suits where the same price of something that you got off the rack, then there's nothing special about the tailored suit. And eventually that goes out of style, although it is the superior product. So that's where I think a lot of us need to look at price point, when we're thinking about to scale or not to scale. Like what is the price point that suits your brand? Well? And what is the price point that allows you to serve your demographic to the highest end, but for you to water down your product to deliver what is considered a cheap price to the marketplace? You didn't do your customers a favor in that at that point. You did yourself an injustice, right? Like you did yourself a disservice. Because I have an awesome product or an I'm not just like, it's not like an optimistic thing like oh, yeah, no, like, words of affirmation about your product. So it can become that also, if you really have what we're calling the kiss brand, luxury brand, or even a tailored suit, just offer that example. If you now take that same experience and sell it at the Dollar Tree, then you've just watered down your product and have done a disservice for your for your customer. So I don't know, I business standpoint, I definitely see that price point is critical. When asking yourself that question, do I scale? Or do I not scale? The other end of the story or the other side of that explanation is you know, you should scale when your product is in impacted by adjustment of price to appeal to the masses. Right because that then essentially is the thing it's like certain products don't scale well within reason of course because like I think of like Louis Vuitton I don't know why that just came to my mind and their their bags could be like a couple $1,000 But it seemed like everybody got so within reason. But for the most part I think of especially as a as a startup brand or startup entrepreneur, you got to imagine that your product has to be unique enough and can also be sold at a price point where it's convincing for everyone to at least say heck, I'm gonna try it or This is dope I want this and then they get to that point where they don't even look at the price tag because you have their buy in with like you have enough brand, which which I'm always fascinated by It's like another another conversation we might need to have as a brand or products like superior brand or superior product, you know, because it's like you need a good product. But at some point the brand far exceeds the product like people buy the product. Yeah, it's the brand.

Nicky Saunders  
Yeah. And for those who don't know supreme could sell anything at a certain point where at their highest they sold the break. But um, let me give let me give a little background of, of Kiss, which, funnily enough their slogan is just us, right? So for people who, who may know the definition of like kit that goes from like, what was it? kith and kin? Is like one's friends and acquaintances. So already right there. Man is telling you. I don't care about the masses. My thing. So it was it was a birth in in 2007 and they are known for, like their collaborations and limited raps. So they worked with everybody from Nike, to Adidas, all the way to Versace. Okay with the Medusa head. And that's, that's a big deal, right super big deal. But the thing that's really unique about kids is they don't do wholesale. And so for what people, for those who don't know what that mean is you can't find kids anywhere else besides their locations. And so they're even though their locations are now a little bit wider than what they used to be. As far as there is so hold. They're in Brooklyn, but they're everything from like LA to like, Tokyo. So, they're, they're out there, but you can't find them anywhere else. Besides in ket . Now, I said limited drops, which makes it understandable why maybe they're worth from what I looked up can be from between 9 to 11 million. For somebody who's saying, you know, I'm not trying to scale that is a good is a good amount. Super good amount. And, of course, people are trying to acquire people are trying to to a, let me let me get that off. You feel me? Let me get that off you. However, I, even with when I look at building deeper than the brand and stuff like that, and how I even move with my own personal brand. It's like I look at this model. And I'm like, so inspired. Yeah. Because I'm like, Okay, so the goal isn't always to scale. The goal, like you can still make a guap of money, if done strategically, if done in a way where you're not always out there. And we've spoken about it too. You have like two different types of brands, like you have available all the time. Or super exclusive and limited. Like the end you make money regardless, because there's people who are gonna need you all the time. Right? There's going to be people who need a coat from Burlington, you know, but then they're going to need a coat and pay the money for a Versace one for Gucci one both for making good amount of money. So I think it's whatever you want to do, based off your values based off how you want, you know, how you want to run things. Like I looked at that, and I had to add it to the podcast because I'm like, okay, Moose been big, we've been big. On the whole scale, scale scale, you can't scale. And I'm like, okay, but I like by little close stuff. I like reaching the community, like I like catering to only these people, right? And then you think you look at them, like a, like a supreme, and even Kiss, where you can collaborate, to get maybe outside of your community? A little bit, right, but still stay true to I'm not, I'm not out there to everybody is going to be limited. For sure quality, boom, we're good. Yeah. I like it. I like it a lot. I like that we have options. I like that you can still make millions and not feel bad. You know, like it's kind of percent right. But is it still? Is it still wise? Not wise? That's not what I'm looking for. But to you would it be strategic to have scalability in one pocket? And the option to not scale? In another pocket?

Mostafa Ghonim  
Yeah. 100% 100% I just think, what's making me what's making me look at it differently, especially when you define the name. It's probably a decision that was made either it's inception, like when they built it, they already had this mapped out as to, we're not necessarily interested in being, you know, the next off-white in our life, we want to be just that just for us. So it's making me kind of almost like challenge myself and challenge those who are listening, like, can you make such a commitment and stay disciplined to that? And the minute you start something and say, This is what it's going to be, this is who it's going to be for. And we're going to stick to that 15 years later, that's still a sizable run, right? And then we're not saying that they're, you know, ending anytime soon. But that's, that's, that's, that's a nice run. So, but to answer your question, I do think that it is possible. And it's probably even recommended. Because I mean, I forgot who I was speaking with this, about my I feel like I have all these types of conversations with you. So probably was you. But we, it's like we were talking about how different a car companies, they create other brands with a new name, to tell it to a different market. Right. So let's say, for example, Lexus, Lexus has already the premium, let's just in this example, call it the non scalable option, where they're like, well, not everyone can afford a Lexus Yes, let's start to Yota. That'll be scalable, there'll be a little bit more affordable for everybody else. And we could give it to the masses. So I'm not going to allow it to water down my premium product. I'm going to differentiate it by giving it a new name, a whole, its whole, its own thing. But it does allow me to keep something more scalable along the along the line, because from a business standpoint, it is sound, right? Like scalability is something that is a sound business move. So you don't want to kind of avoid or miss out on a sound business practice. Because you've committed to one thing, I think, if you have the resources and the bandwidth, it's always smart to do it. But if you do it, or should you choose to do it, you got to differentiate and not tie it to the premium product because they're gonna be like, Whoa, was so what's the difference? Like why? Why would I keep buying Lexus if I can now buy it to that, you know, a fraction of the cost. So you got to differentiate for sure when you make that move.

Nicky Saunders  
These are facts, these are facts. And also, talking about names just super random tip because I'm, I'm even on this right now. You don't have to name you find a name for your brand. Don't name it. Everything that you know, like, which we'll call this make up a random brand. Okay, so like shout out to notion right. A saved they said notion and the notion books, notion hats, notion cars, notion printers. No, like different audiences. Right? So you do, you don't want to water down your brand's name. So, like even with us, like we're going to do deeper than the brand presents. The next thing, dividend brand presents the next thing because we're trying to cater to those particular audiences and not confuse what the main brand is. And that's that for anybody who's in that whole naming convention, of like, okay, I'm just going to name it this gear and this everything else like Nah, just try to find new names give give your new idea. Its own lane. Little small tip no small tip but follow us everywhere. Okay, people follow us everywhere Nicky and Moose all that great stuff. I'm just a little reminder and on our after show. We're going to be talking about the power of one may talk about some other stuff but power one does this understand that sounds really dope. Talk about some a rod stuff but Moose final words.

Mostafa Ghonim  
That quick,

Nicky Saunders  
like that quick we’re done

Mostafa Ghonim  
I’m waiting for one more clip. I'm like, yeah, no, no. Okay, okay Nah fair enough. These episodes been gettin a little shorter. Nah man, I want to go back to that. That reminder. Like, hey, no matter who you get your inspiration from, no matter what great empowers you to go out there and do your next thing, man Sure you sprinkle a little bit of yourself right into that mix as well.