Episode 11 - Top 4 Personal Brands In 2020

Nicky Saunders  0:00  
What's poppin'? What's poppin'? What's poppin'? Welcome to Nicky and Moose! I'm Nicky! That's Moose! What's up Moose?

Mostafa Ghonim  0:07  
What up y'all?

Nicky Saunders  0:08  
And this episode we are going to be talking about who had the biggest wins in 2020 from a brand and business side. Moose, how...are you excited? Are you talking about... I know I got a controversial one. But how we feel about this?

Mostafa Ghonim  0:27  
Yeah, this is gonna be exciting, man. There's, it's been a heck of a year. You know, it's been some high highs and low lows. But when you unpack a year, I think there's gonna be a lot that comes from it. So yeah, I'm looking forward to this one.

Nicky Saunders  0:40  
Let's get into this intro.

Jaymie Jordan  0:44  
Two kids from Queens, cut from a different cloth. Now joining forces, helping you to elevate your personal brand. Yeah, I'm talking about Nicky and Moose. Bringing you a never before seen perspective into the mindset, the mentality, the behaviors, the driving force, but more importantly, the stories behind the people and brands that you know and love the most.

Nicky Saunders  1:13  
So of course, we got to start off with the review of the week. This one...who does this come from? J9LS: "Speechless! I'm absolutely speechless with how amazing and inspiring this episode was. Love how E.T, talked so highly of studying the book of you. Yes, yes, and yes!"

Mostafa Ghonim  1:43  
Three yes's! Let's go!

Nicky Saunders  1:42  
I mean...Let's talk about, let's talk about the three, three yes's. I'm just saying. But shout out to you and shout out to everybody who leaves us a review. We are reading it, we appreciate you. We were on the charts because of y'all. So totally, totally appreciate it. But let's get into this episode. Moose, yo, we had a really crazy year, I'm not even gonna hold you. Like this was, this was different. And there was...can we talk about the overused word, though? First and foremost, before we get into the people?

I think that's gonna be yours, but you say yours. I think I know what you're gonna say. I have a phrase.

So no, I have a word, right? Um, everybody, quote, unquote, did a pivot.

Mostafa Ghonim  2:32  
Mm hmm. You don't like that word.

Nicky Saunders  2:38  
I hate the word "pivot". And hate is such a strong word. But I think everybody used that way too much. For no reason. Okay, can we come up with another word? "Transition"...  I don't know, but whatever. I don't like the word "pivot". But there was a lot of good things that came out of this year, even though we had a whole pandemic, and how different brands and businesses kind of adjusted and some shine some didn't was amazing to see from that standpoint, you know, I don't know how you your take is for 2020.

Mostafa Ghonim  3:23  
Yeah, I mean, it definitely tested everyone's creativity, right? If you were stuck in your old ways, or didn't want to change. I think those are the people who may have experienced a little bit more challenge than others. But to get that opportunity to test some unique strategies...think, again, there hasn't been a pandemic like this before. So you couldn't go back into your Rolodex like, "hmmm, what have we done in the past and see if we can recreate that?" Like, you really just have to trust your gut, and go and then really post check to see what's happening. So yeah, I think it was a unique time, especially for entrepreneurs and creatives. Because this is where, you know, many of those people get an opportunity to thrive. 

Nicky Saunders  4:06  
Facts. So, I want to do an honorable mention before. We were going to cover this person, but shout out to Amazon because I never spent so much on Amazon. Shout out to Instacart. They are my new best friend because I don't go to the grocery store anymore. Like this year has been all about please deliver to me. I don't know if this created like a a new a boujee lifestyle without necessarily being boujee with it. Oh, it

Mostafa Ghonim  4:42  
Oh it did. Oh it did. Oh it did. Big time. Big time. 

Nicky Saunders  4:44  
Because I never thought I would have my groceries sent to me. Like, let me just order this real quick and be like, right at my front door. No no, leave it right there. I'll come get it when I'm when I'm done with this meeting. Just leave it right there I'll come get it later. That's crazy. That's...anyways, alright, so, because I go on and on about this, but those were the honorable mentions because that was that. But I want to go over the very first one. And I think this one brought positivity to a very negative stage in 2020 when the pandemic hit, and everybody was at home on our phones and everything all the sudden there was this like, virtual party that every...like it was a club. Like everybody wanted to be in the club. How many times were you in the club Moose? The virtual club not...

Mostafa Ghonim  5:49  
Quite a bit. Quite a bit. Yeah, no, I know talking about. I hit the club a few times. You know? Especially the start. I think they got me once they said, "Yo, you're partying with Diddy and Will Smith and Oprah.

Nicky Saunders  6:00  
That's what I was about to ask you. Like who was...who was at the club with you?

Mostafa Ghonim  6:05  
Yeah, I had Diddy. You know, I ran into Diddy, you know, in the comments. I think it was Diddy, Will Smith, and I think they mentioned Oprah as well. Those were the three that stood out. Yeah. How about you?

Nicky Saunders  6:19  
When I... when I went to the club, I had Bernie Sanders. I had DJ Khaled. I had Busta Rhymes. Michelle Obama was in the building. So you know, that was a that was a big deal. That was a big deal. But if you don't know who we're talking about, of course, we're talking about D-Nice. D-Nice, killed it this year. I think, definitely one of the biggest wins, because from going from a DJ, who not many of this time knew about... crazy is that he actually had like a number one billboard rap track in 1990. No one knew that before he got famous on Instagram, right? No one knew...well, I don't want to say no one. Like true hip hop fans knew about D- Nice, so I don't want to discredit him. But like, it opened up a whole world to understanding who D-Nice was. And he was the model of what is happening right now. Like how we're seeing more people go live on a consistent basis. Virtual events and everything because D-Nice really started going live every single day for like 12-15 hours a day. Like, I was I was worried about is like eating like, do you eat sir? Do you go to the bathroom? What is was like, because you're going to miss people. Like he changed his hat. That was the best part for me. The changing the hats part. What was the best part for you?

Mostafa Ghonim  8:03  
That was dope. That was dope. Yeah, no, that that I think is dope. You know why? Because it was that that unique touch. It's like, oh, everybody's going live, but you know what, I'm gonna go live. And I'm gonna put my element. I like hats. So I'm gonna switch hats, every so often to put my unique spin to what everybody else is doing. So not only what he was doing was so amazing. And it was lifting people's spirits during the time that many people needed it. But I think that unique touch of the hat switch up, you know, that was a real classy move too.

Nicky Saunders  8:34  
Yeah, so I wanted to play a clip of him talking about his virtual club and how important social media was to him.

DJ D-Nice  8:44  
And we're just talking about how weird initially was to, to, to communicate to people that this IG live thing, in the very beginning, actually felt... if I closed my eyes, I felt like I was in the room with all of these people. And I'm not talking about when we hit 1000, or anything like that. I'm talking about in the very beginning. Yeah, the conversations that we were having in there while I was DJing. If I close my eyes and play music, I would just imagine really being in a room with people. And how do you explain that, like, now everyone is doing it. You know what I mean? Like everyone has IG lives and we all have shows, and we all have music, and we're all you know, other artists are doing their own thing, and it's great. But in the very beginning, it was like how do you convince people that there's something magical about like, social media, like the way we're using these platforms now?

Nicky Saunders  9:42  
So here's my question to you, right. Do you think people took...takes a little take social media a little bit more serious now, with the pandemic compared to before? Did we take social media for grante um, and now that this is dealing thing that we have now we see the value? What is... what is your take on that? 

Mostafa Ghonim  10:09  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely! I think the value of social media has increased tremendously, because now people are in a time when they were forced to connect, and they had no other distractions, no other means to do so, they were left to the only method that everybody else was using. So it was the IG live, it was the reaching out and maybe collaborating with other people and doing lives together, interviewing, that kind of thing. So yeah, I would definitely say there's a great appreciation for social. But you also saw a lot of who was on track, like who's been steadily putting in work, and then who also was not in position to do what they need to do. And also took some steps back. Maybe some people who messed the things up as well, or messed up, they're just overall appearance online, because they did some things that, you know, shout out to you with your reels of like your the things that you should not do on live. And you saw a bit more of that as well, because everybody just started hopping on the bandwagon, so and that, and that's really why I'm giving credit to his hat switch up because that was the part that added his personal touch to it. And was like, You know what, I'm going to add my personal flavor, in addition to what I'm doing, so that that bonus to it was great. But I'm curious to know, what did you see? Because there's been a lot, you know, that has come about from...what is it nine months, pretty much in lockdown. What were some of the things that you noticed?

Nicky Saunders  11:30  
I think, clearly, the use of lives, I think went up about 70% during this pandemic, right? I, I believe D-Nice made it very acceptable and almost look easy, right? You have a an occupation, which is DJing. That usually, you see in the clubs, you have to be at an event physically. And a lot of artists, a lot of people who did things in person, were struggling to figure out how to make money, how to bring attention to what they were doing online. And he said, I'm going to DJ the same way I would, at some of these events that I was going to get paid for. Right? And he did that and so many opportunities opened up because he treated it as if he was really doing this for a paid gig. Right? With that, I think people saw it and was like, Okay, this is the new wave, even though it's not new. Right? This is the new wave. And I have to be consistent on live on social media to get maybe even some of the attention some of the opportunities that D-Nice did, right? So he created this blueprint of what we know works in a pandemic, as far as personal brands and branding just in general on social media. How do we switch our normal from in person or interacting with people in real life? How do we do this when everybody is at home and distant? He literally made a virtual club. You could not get Will Smith, Ellen, Alicia Keys, P. Diddy, Michelle Obama, Bernie Sanders, everybody plus you, plus me, plus everybody in New York and California. And he had 100K on one live. They celebrated it. That was the infamous like... I wish I could have... Do I have it? Let's see if I could pull it up. But that was a prime time to say Yo, this is the this is the new norm we have 100K in one room. Who does that? No, like, at that time. No one does that. Now clearly... and we went over Verzuz before. Shout out to the Swizz episode. Swizz clearly, Swizz and Tim now has hit the 1mil...1.8 million mark. So clearly, beat D-Nice. But before then, that was being really celebrated. That wasn't done before. We didn't see so many people in one area, celebrating, just being positive in one spot. And so when you're, you're looking at the trends and you're looking at what could possibly work with this new norm, it is treating what you would normally do in real life in your virtual life. How can I continue to do what I did in person, right here through my phone right here through my laptop, my computer? What kind of equipment do I need? And to start off, you don't need anything besides your phone. Like, that's what he worked with. Like he had his phone. He, I mean, he used the environment that he had, which is his crib. He had his turntables, he had all his hats, you know? And he made it work. It got to the point where people were sending him food so he can eat, you know, because I was worried. I'm gonna hold you. I was worried. I was like, how are you gonna eat today? Are you...because you're, you're drinking a lot like, are you? Are you gonna eat today? Yeah, I don't need you to get sick. But it was it was really dope to see and how he was one of the main reasons why Verzuz happened. Like he started that. He's the reason why other DJs started doing the same thing. Clearly not getting the same traction. But a lot more DJs all the sudden, did that and they started become more narrow as far as what songs they were playing. So you had this is the DJ that did the reggaeton one, this is the DJ that did early 90s. This is you know, and even just regular personal brands, like I said the lives went up 70%. So he still does it to this day. Does it get the same traction? No. But he started something he started not only a way to be positive in a negative situation. But a you could almost say a business model?

Mostafa Ghonim  17:19  
Oh, absolutely. Because it's gonna change. It's gonna change the trajectory of his career for God knows how long now. You know, I think not even 72 hours into the lives he was featured on New York Times. All right. So like you add those kind of think of them like Emmys or awards to your to your resume'. You know, the price changes a little bit. You you elevate you you make history in a sense. I mean, I don't know if that. And i'm prayful that we don't go through another pandemic, like the one that we did. So the part that I also want to highlight too, Nicks is the fact that he jumped out there before things were rolling. Perfect, right? I mean, I don't know he if he thought, I don't know. And I gotta listen to some more his interviews. I don't know if he started like with the thought like, Yo, I'm gonna start a live there reaches 100,000 people. I don't think that was the idea behind it. Right? Like, that wasn't the intention. The intention was like, yo, let me just spread some positivity and hope and whether or not where it goes, or whatever happens, whatever comes from it, but just do something. You know what, I think that part was important, too. 

Nicky Saunders  18:26  
Yeah, it's just so good to see and especially for people who have been in the game for a minute, that is just isn't relevant in the time? Like, that's why I love what D-Nice did, and what Verzuz do because it brings light to not only the artist, but to the songs of what maybe this current generation doesn't really understand, or never had heard before. Like, no one knew...a lot of people to this day and shout out to everybody in Clubhouse because we had a room where D-Nice actually, I brought him on stage and I was talking to him, right?  D-Nice if you're watching this would love to have you on the podcast. You know, I mean, I'ma gonna try to get you back on the stage in Clubhouse and we just talked that out but, um, it there was a few things where somebody was like, yo, kind of almost alluding to like overnight success or something. And you could tell he got like, kind of mad not mad but like disturbed like Yo, let me let me explain something. This wasn't an Instagram thing. I've been doing this for about 30 years. Right? This is not my first rodeo. You know, I've dealt with the the Obamas already. I've been in major groups. I've had billboard hits and things like that, like, I've been doing this, this is just new to y'all. You know? And I've what me and him talked about was like, yo, why haven't you told your story yet? You know, why isn't...he's like, honestly, I didn't see, I just wanted to create for the people. And I didn't see it to be the right time. And I was telling him like, Look, we need to hear about this, because that's the problem with social media is that we only know what we see. You know?

Mostafa Ghonim  20:37  
Right. And people will come up with their own thing, if you don't say something.

Nicky Saunders  20:41  
Exactly. And so if you don't, if you don't lay out the proper story, and that could be a whole branding lesson in itself. But if you don't lay out the proper story of who you are, and what you've done, and how you can transform people's lives, like we're going to assume, we're going to assume, oh, because you were able to figure out IG live, you became you went from 100K to a million in the matter of a few days.

Mostafa Ghonim  21:17  
That's how much his account grew, right?

Nicky Saunders  21:19  
Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy to see, it was me and CJ, were looking at it over and over again. Like, yo, how fast is this growing? And then when we saw that he got what was it? I think he got featured in Ellen. I was like, Oh, yeah, you get featured in Ellen. That's like, almost a guaranteed mil for some reason. It's like, we love you. Yay, you're accepted by everybody. But...

Yeah that is a stamp, though. That's real.

It is. It is. But, um, I wanted to definitely give D-Nice his props. Let's give the claps. Clap him up. Because to really create a positive virtual club, because, you know, clubs sometimes get the bad wraps. Ya mean? Depends on the clubs that you go to. Right? But to allow people at some of the worst times to be able to be in a room with their favorite celebrities, favorite politicians, you know, just favorite human beings in the world. Like it didn't matter who you were, what status how much money you made, like you were able to bring people into one location and just have fun and enjoy. That deserves all the flowwers in the world. So D-Nice we give you your flowers and some claps. Ya mean?

Mostafa Ghonim  23:37  
Yeah well deserved. Well deserved.

Nicky Saunders  22:53  
 Yeah, that was you did some... something really dope. But of course, from a Nicky and Moose standpoint, air horns. So, next person who has a win. We may know this person, we may I don't know Moose you may know him. I don't know. I don't. I don't know if you had conversations with him this year. Have you had conversations with him this year? I know. I know. He texted me this morning because he couldn't upload his video. So I talked to him today. So he tried to call me and I was like, sir church. Hello. E's preaching what you want me to do? But you may have had a conversation you may have shook his hand. Um, we kind of know this guy. Shout out to our next big win of 2020. Tobe. Tobe, yo, first off he created not only a whole movement for during the Black Lives Matter situation, but then made it almost acceptable to like, have hands. Like he literally did a song "Try Jesus" that was a hit. And everybody was loving it. It didn't matter what culture you were from. You were singing "Try Jesus don't try me." Every single day, people bought the shirt. I bought the shirt. I got it in this mint color that he's been doing lately. It is crazy to see Tobe's growth. I did a post of like zero to 500K. And like I want to say middle or like beginning of, of COVID. Right? And now we're talking about I need to really update that to zero to a million. Because he's almost there. He's been. He has songs with Black Thought, D-Smoke, 5'9", Royce da 5'9". Endless endless Paul Wall. Like to see Tobe's growth. Yeah, it it's it's amazing but what I really wanted to highlight not only his growth but how him as an artist and him is a brand really took what was happening in the world, transform his all his whole house into a new video set and still stayed consistent when putting out very creative visuals for his songs, right for his raps. It didn't miss any beat as far as the schedule wise. He still created amazing work amazing art and to people who look at music and his visuals as art and created what he is known as The Pandemic Experience. He literally did a whole virtual conference, virtual concert during the pandemic did a whole set. It was amazing, the whole rollout and he was on Steve Harvey, The BET awards... it just the fact that, while other, once again, while other people were struggling to figure out how do I make money when normally I go tour because he was starting to become a touring act. Right? He would go on tour every... and they were sold out each and every single solitary time. And this time he stuck at home and do it. Right? But he took that created his own set created like literally painted his his one of the rooms in his crib, right? Shout out to the new crib. We don't think we ain't noticed. That's not new, sir. That's new. We see it. Right? We see it. But how he took advantage of being at home, sitting down, thinking of new ways to be creative. And having the top celebrities share out his things. Being in different kinds of virtual conferences. I know United Masters just did one I think this past week, where he was featured on. So many different articles about what he's been doing. Moose, what do you think about how Tobe's been moving in these digital streets lately?

Mostafa Ghonim  28:04  
Yeah, he's done a phenomenal job. Man. One of the things that I love about what Tobe's done, number one is that he stayed in his lane all throughout, right? And even as the opportunities presented themselves, even as the platform has grown, and, and the audiences have began to get mixed up, right, because you'll see him from time to time posting, you know, different people who are listening to his music from all ages, all backgrounds, all ethnicities, I'm sure different religions, and he still stuck to the core of his message. So I think that's one of my favorite things about what he's done. I remember, I went to see him in New York when he toured in New York before it was like probably early this year, like super early or late last year. Phenomenal show, a great experience. But again, you look, and this is one of the unique ones that I have is seeing a show live, and then watching the videos, you can still sense the energy. Another thing that I thought was phenomenal, is he did the virtual conference, you know, and that was a couple months back as well. So while he couldn't go tour, and that was a primary thing. He also put on that live experience for people that you can sit in the living room, and he went all out as if it was literally again, a live show, you know, rented out the set. Now in that case, he wasn't necessarily at home, it looked like he rented out some stage. But what I love about it is down to the details. Even the stage was mint. Microphone stands were mint. The microphones themselves were mint. They were wearing mint. Everything was mint right? And and what he called Mint Heaven and it was dope. I really enjoyed that experience. And then you still see that he hasn't lost a sense of who he is throughout that entire process like despite of the success. He got his children on stage running out with him and joking around with his children. There was a part where they had a little kind of like technical difficulty. And then they just started making jokes with Nell and everyone, you know, around just to kind of show like, yo, regardless of what happened, I'm still me, we're still we, and we're operating as a unit. So I think there's a lot of mini lessons that you can take, you know, from what Tobe has done throughout the pandemic, prior to and how he's consistently continue to grow his brand. And I think, lastly, that's probably the the biggest inspiration of it all, like the man is probably the definition of consistent at this point, like he has not stopped since since I've met him four years ago or something like that. It's literally been, you know, for the most part every single Sunday with the exception of certain seasons when they're touring or whatnot. But yeah, so many lessons embedded into his journey and what he what what he's done and accomplished. So, yeah, that's been dope.

Nicky Saunders  30:57  
Yeah. And so we got a clip of clearly Tobe talking, and we will have Tobe on the podcast to talk himself. But until then...

Tobe Nwigwe  31:09  
I had to learn how to do everything because I came into the industry with no no fore knowledge of how to like maneuver through here. And I see and I, but I couldn't make no excuses for what I wanted to do. I knew what I wanted to do. And I couldn't make excuses for why it wasn't getting done. So I had to become resourceful and learn how to design my own stuff and write raps and make songs and know what instruments I wanted to use and know how I wanted stuff to look and learn camera angles, and how to direct stuff. But it's only because of necessity. So I will say that my vision was born out of lack.

Nicky Saunders  32:03  
My vision was born out of lack. 

Mostafa Ghonim  32:07  
Yeah that's a bar.

Nicky Saunders  32:07  
That is a whole bar like. And the crazy thing about it is like you think of we sometimes wish we had everything like we want the machine behind us to push our products our services, give us all the resources. And not only talking just about like music artists, but just like any kind of business, any kind of brand. We want that backing that sometimes we just don't get. And we really have to work with what we have. We really have to see the different tools and the resources we have right in the crib sometimes. And especially in this in this year, we really had to look around and be like, how do we make this work? Like, shoot shout out to us, we figured out how to make this work with being at the crib.

Mostafa Ghonim  33:10  
Yo legit. Oh my God.

Nicky Saunders  33:12  
So I and the funny thing is, I literally have and I didn't discuss this so I'm not going to put it on the podcast. But if you want to, tweet us, and we'll we'll tweak the video, but I have about like, I want to say whether it was a year or two ago, when in Michigan, we they they built out the podcast room, right in the church. And Moose put on the headphones and had the mic first time and he was like, Oh, that sounds so clear. Oh my God. I was like Moose podcast coming soon. He's like, "yeah, yeah Ima do a podcast." He was so hyped. And ideally, it would have been amazing to do the podcast in the podcast room, all the equipment, everything, but we had to adjust. And the great thing about Tobe is that he did the same. He looked around his crib. Yeah, we're gonna be here for a minute. Let's transform the crib. Let's paint it up. Let's bring everybody, six feet clearly, you know. And let's still make the music. He went live a few times you saw the distance within each artist and everything. And it was just refreshing to see how somebody like Tobe can make it work with nothing. You know, and for those who don't know Tobe's story, he really just started off with his iPhone. You literally saw the nose hairs in the boogers that he had. In his videos, while he was while he was rapping, right, it started with one of the social media challenges. And he made it work. And he used the resources that he had because he was independent. And we always refer to music a lot, is because music artists is literally the blueprint to personal branding majority of the times. Because you're starting with nothing or very little capital. Right? You have to, kind of with, especially with digital products, you have to learn how to sell air sometimes, because they sell songs, there's nothing physical anymore. They're not selling CDs anymore. Right? They have to figure out, you know, events, they have concerts, and things like that they also sell merch. So we always kind of refer to, you know, these music artists because some people are like Nicky and Moose are just hip hop heads. Yes, we are. But that's not why we do this. Well, somewhat it does. It's not the only reason why, but there is a true connection. Because just like a, let's say, any influencer that you know, on social media they were home to, and a lot of people were absent on social media, because they didn't know how to adjust. They didn't know what they were doing. They were used to the studio life, they were used to all the lights had other people doing stuff for them. They didn't know how to just show up for their audience with not getting their hair done. Not the usual people around them. Not anybody who's working the camera, right? And Tobe figured it all out beforehand, before the pandemic that it was easy to do during the pandemic. 

Mostafa Ghonim  37:00  
Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. There's a level of scrappiness that comes with the music artists, because you know, you think about what you're selling to your point, you're selling a song, but you're selling an experience, you're selling a vision, you're selling an emotion. So I think that's a great lesson to to pull away from 2020 and into 2021. For those of you who are working on brands and businesses, really ask yourself like outside of the physical thing that I'm presenting to people, whatever it is a product or a service, what am I really selling? Right? What kind of business are you in? I remember, even like in the hospitality industry, while our means of exchange was staffing events, I was really in the people business, right like it was it was more so around how we treated people, how we catered to people, how we made people feel, to at least want to be a part of our staff that determined what type of effort they were going to present during the event. So I think that was one of the things early on that I was able to catch on to during my scrappiness phase to say, I'm not just in the staffing industry, I'm not in the hospitality industry. I'm in the people business. And that that kind of shifted my mindset to how I should approach day to day. So to you out there listening, I'm gonna say the same thing or shout out to everybody watching on YouTube. Yo, what type of business? Are you in search beyond that first level of oh yeah, I'm in...I'm consulting. I'm a coach. I'm a speaker. I'm a musician, an artist, you know, like, go deeper and really figure out what am I really presenting to people? What kind of business am I in?

Nicky Saunders  38:39  
Yes. That's good. So shout out, shout out to Tobe, you are... the wins that you have done through this year, we have to give you your flowers, clap it up. Ya mean? Clap it up. Especially the BET awards. That was an amazing, if you haven't seen his performance on BET, I really wants you to Google it. Or YouTube it. I said Google. Go on YouTube. Watch that, you're going... I mean, it'll come up on Google too...to Google Google I'm not, not no shade, right. But definitely YouTube that it was an amazing, amazing performance. That's kind of what we were talking about as far as building out this stage as well. He not only did it for his own concert, which was the pandemic experience, but he also did that for the BET awards, and it was amazing to see so shout out to Tobe for that. But we can't leave the year we have one more to but we can't leave the year without talking about LeBron. Yo, I'm LeBron, if you're not getting any flowers, we're gonna give you your flowers because what you did, not only for the Black Lives Matter movement with the whole NBA, but to still push the NBA to have games during a time where there was no entertainment at all. And we were so used to watching sports and it was all gone in a matter of seconds. And for you to be able to be the leader in that movement. Because everybody knows, it's LeBron says we ain't playing, they ain't playing, right? So, and to be able to even win a championship under that distress, like, you're in a bubble. How long was that? Like?

Mostafa Ghonim  40:59  
I think they said 96 days or some crazy number like that.

Nicky Saunders  41:03  
Not with the family, kid, nothing like no outside life, they had to be in in the bubble for actually few weeks before even playing the games, then get into the playoffs. And now there may be a quick turnaround to where the NBA started in a few in a few weeks again. Yeah, it is.

Mostafa Ghonim  41:26  
There is a quick turnaround. They're already back at it. So ya know, it's it's phenomenal man. Especially if you think about, you know, people who have a crazy, like they have the utmost freedom for the most part, like they can really do anything they want to do outside of the means of maybe their basketball schedule. And to take those people when they're put back in lockdown. All right, like you said, and the other part of it, which is interesting is that the more you win, the more you stay in lockdown. Whereas like, typically, that's not the type of reward system that I'm trying to be in. It's like, yo, if I win, let me get some freedom. It's like, no, the more you win, the more you're staying on lockdown. So yeah, to accomplish what he did in and outside of the game, and I'll let you speak to it a little bit more during all of that...unbelievable.

Nicky Saunders  42:12  
And the the great thing is, this is a pure example of how to use your influence, in a big way. Like we know, LeBron is one of the best basketball players of this time. Some may debate that but I have this year for those who really want to debate, of this year. Yeah, right hands down. I don't want to hear nobody say different right? Hands down of this year. And he could have been a typical basketball player. Let me just do what I'm told. Let's just play him here for the game. But he got everybody to kneel. He got everybody to wear different jerseys, different shirts that represented the whole, I can't breathe and Black Lives Matter kind of vibe in a organization that doesn't normally acknowledge that, you know? And that needs to get its flowers, because other people who had influence didn't do that. Other people, because it wasn't the norm, or it would have maybe even hurt their pockets. They they ignored it. But the last time we saw something like that was Kap, right? And when Kap did it clearly blacklisted out like, but he made a stance this time, LeBron was like I'm going to do the same thing. But I you know, I'm going to use my influence. I have a little bit more, you know, no shade to Kap. But I have a little bit more, right? And I'm going to make sure from one end, we're going to we're going to give what the people need, we're going to make sure basketball is played in a time where people are depressed in a time where people need an outlet and a time that people need entertainment of some sort. We're going to do that for the people. It's a bigger thing. But in the meantime, while we're doing this, we're going to have our own movement to show that we are not in our own bubble. We see what's happening in the world. We care about it and we're going to contribute in our way in how we show it. Right? I think that was huge.

Mostafa Ghonim  45:04  
Oh, major.

Nicky Saunders  45:05  
Yeah, I think that was huge because athletes aren't known for that.

Mostafa Ghonim  45:09  
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think the the, the thing that I give him so much respect for is that a lot of people say, well, the downfall of athletes or celebrities or big influencers is that they rally once. And once the momentum and the energy goes away, they take their attention away from it. So so what I love about what LeBron did is he didn't just say all right, jerseys, which again, if even if you would have stopped that, that, that's still respectable, like you're you're getting all of people who at least enjoy basketball or basketball fans to see that messaging on on national television. In addition to that, he goes and creates another organization under his umbrella of brands and calls it more than a vote. And it's specific to educate, right, or avoid voter suppression that has been, that has happened against the black community. So I'm like, yo, the genius of this man. And of course, it helps that he has the team and all of that, and the resources. But what I give him credit is for not stopping once the attention went away, because after this election, I don't know how much we're going to continue to talk about voter suppression or going out to vote, right, like, that's not going to be a trending topic for an entire four years, there are other things that are going to pop up. But the fact that he really focused on putting something in place that's going to carry on for good, and help people to make better decisions as it relates to voting, so that they can empower the community from it from within. That's the part that I'm like, yep, LeBron definitely deserves these flowers for, you know, his 2020 moves. And for those out there who are saying, Well, why should a businessman or why should an athlete care about social justice, because a person in business needs to understand the importance of some level of normalcy that needs to happen within the economy and around the world. And what happened during this pandemic, and it was like, the pandemic times the suppression that has happened forever. On top of that, you add George Floyd, and you see the video of great, you know, with good audio and all of that. It added to it, the height of like, Man, yo, we can't just sit back and allow this stuff to happen. Because the more it happens, the more we have opportunity to lose out on what we've built. And there have been companies that stayed quiet or or maybe used the wrong marketing slogan as a way to cover up their support for the Black Lives community, Black Lives Matter, the black community, right, and have messed themselves up big time. So yeah, I think he it helps what he's done. And I truly do believe that this time, it's going to make a change, like, you know, bring about real change that people can get behind and not feel like, Oh, it was just a seasonal thing. Or this is just something that's trending now, but it'll be gone tomorrow, he built an organization that's here to stay now.

Nicky Saunders  48:08  
Yeah. And the great part about it, because maybe people are listening, like, Alright, where's the where's the branding and business not only did what Moose said, about keeping a pulse on the people and what they care about, but as well as utilizing your platform. Like, understanding the power that you have with your platform. And the court is his platform, you know, now and not only social media, but the court was his platform. So he used his influence, to have a bigger meaning and a bigger message than anybody else. And I totally agree with Moose with, you need to keep a pulse on it. Like, this shows that you care about people, right? It's not only about what you like, but you attract an audience, you attract the following. And if you are ignorant to what their needs and what their values and what their views are of the world, and you're not speaking for them as an influencer standpoint, as a pure leader, then this is where you take an L because you are out of touch. And people do not care for those leaders who are only about them and not for the people. So we have a clip for from LeBron now from like he didn't send us this. I don't want y'all to be like, Oh my god, they got real big time they got a clip from...no, no, no, no, no, not yet. Not yet. But this is a conversation about haters, haters.

LeBron  50:01  
People there's some people on TV, and there's writers that write that people in the basketball world really listened to. And they really believe, and I'm not going to give any of those names on this show, because they don't deserve it... that continue to discredit or continue to not to understand what, you know, the drive that I put into it, you know, you know, they talk about these players Oh, well, he doesn't have that same drive as them or he doesn't have that same mentality as those if he did he'll, like and, and they see what I continue to accomplish so, but it was also like, to the naysayers and to the haters, which will always be there even after I'm done playing. I hear it I see it. And just like one of the words I'm using today holding them accountable.

Mostafa Ghonim  50:52  
That's real. What why is that you think that the the the haters resonate, or scream so much louder? Because I'm sure LeBron is still getting love. You know, but for whatever reason, it's like, and I think a lot of people that they hate resonates or, or screams louder, than some of the love that they might be getting,

Nicky Saunders  51:12  
We, we are attracted to negativity. So no matter how many good things you can do, the negative will always outshine for some reason. And the only way to truly combat that is to continue to do good. Like, we're always going to have haters. Even from a standpoint, we may even make mistakes, period, right? And we can't allow people to make us go left from the actual goal, right? Lebron's goal is to be the best, which he is right? Is to make an impact, not only in his hometown, but in the world, right? To stand for certain rights. And I think he's doing an amazing job at that. The fact that people don't give him certain credit. And of course, the biggest debate is the Jordan and LeBron thing. And that's, I mean, for healthy competition, that is great. Right? For conversational wise that's amazing. But then when certain people who have certain platforms, kind of discredit him on certain parts, I think that's can affect anybody, you know, that affects anybody that would affect the from the lowest person on the totem pole to the biggest celebrity in the world, right? But what I, what I love, what he said, was that he's just going to hold them accountable. Right? And I took it as I'm going to keep breaking records, I'm going to keep doing good. I'm going to keep opening up schools, I'm going to keep doing nonprofit situations and giving, creating jobs for people and just doing things that are a bit different. Not only from a athlete standpoint, on the court, right, but outside of the court. And when it's all said and done. I'm gonna hold you accountable for everything that you said.

Mostafa Ghonim  53:51  
Yeah, that's real. That's real. I like that. He doesn't even want to mention their names on the on the platform like yeah, this is my platform. Well, guess what you're ain't even bout to get any love on my...I'm not about to mention your name here. That's real.

Nicky Saunders  54:02  
Right. Right. And it's crazy. And that's why even on this podcast, it's important that we give flowers while they're alive. Because all those people that are going to say something, when he's dead is going to be like, Oh my God, he's the greatest basketball player that ever lived, blah, blah, blah. Look at all the great things that he's done. And this that. And this is for anybody who says anything from a really negative criticism kind of vibe, right? You're given a platform. And it doesn't always have to take negativity to keep you relevant. Your opinion matters, but when the only time you want to say something about a person and it's just negative for click bait, or to bring up your ratings or anything like that. Like, you got to really look within yourself and see, can you do something besides that? Because if you don't give people their flowers, when it's due in their living standpoint in who they are now, you can't...it's not even on the standpoint of like, alright, LeBron won the championship. But was that really a championship? Because it was the bubble. My guy It was. It was a championship regardless, those were stressful circumstances. He wasn't with his family. He couldn't see outside people. He had to see the same guys over and over and over again, like do the same thing. same routine that like he's like he's a hamster.

Mostafa Ghonim  55:52  
Right. Right. Now that's real. That's real. It has its own unique circumstance, you could compare it to anything else. Right? It has its own unique circumstance in that, yeah, while it was in a full blown season, and they didn't get to, you know, have the full length of season. But still, if you compare the record, I mean, chances are, they would have won the division anyway. And not to make it a sports conversation. But you're right. Unfortunately, it's those who are in the attention business that have to stir the pot. And you know, it makes its way to the top where it's like, Man, that's unfortunate, because this is somebody who is truly a Changemaker, and you never know what word can affect what he's doing that trickles down. So yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Nicky Saunders  56:40  
So LeBron, you have your flowers from us, at least. What you did this year from a movement standpoint, from on the court standpoint, from a human being standpoint, for the year 2020, you got one of the biggest wins, we want to congratulate you, even though our ranking doesn't mean too much yet, yet. Ya mean? We got to give the flowers but...now hold on, hold on, hold on. Here is the debatable one that I want to bring up. This may go a little over time. So shout out to everybody who is listening and still watching, right? If you were listening, I would love for you to go back on YouTube for this particular part. Right? Because we're going to relive a very funny, sad, confusing point of 2020. Okay. Some may not understand why this even happened. Was this a right move? What is going on in life? Is this relevant in our lives? And for those who are like Nicky, what are you talking about? Oh, when Nate Robinson got knocked out. Let's look at it.

So So look, look, look. For those who are just listening on the audio experience, appreciate y'all. What you just heard was the commentary of what was it? Who is it? Jake Paul? Which one Logan Paul? Whatever. I think it was Jake Paul. I don't know one of those...one of those people. The youtuber guy, because I'm not a fan of the person right. But um, when Jake Paul knocked out Nate Robinson on the Mike Tyson- Roy Jones, Jr. card, that was, I want to say an interesting way to end 2020. Knocked down on your face when you were a, I believe a three time slam dunk champ in the NBA. Multiple shows on the internet. Highly respectable sneaker head. I don't know. I don't know how I feel.

Mostafa Ghonim  59:27  
I don't know!

Nicky Saunders  59:27  
I don't know. Okay, okay. I don't know how I feel about an athlete who is established facing a YouTuber for whatever reason. Now, granted, the bag was there. The exposure was there. Um, the connections could have possibly be there right? Now, the debatable part is was this a win or a loss? In 2020, for Nate Robinson? Now for Jake, this was a start of... and Triller. Shout out to Triller. Hold on, because that platform has been doing amazing things. And I think I'm not sure if they are going to do the Floyd and the other brother. Yeah, I don't know if they're gonna do it. But um, Triller is amazing for throwing that one. But at the end of the day, oh, and shout out to Snoop for the commentary. I think that was the best commentary in a boxing match. Shout out to you Snoop. But my question is, was this a win or a loss for Nate Robinson? React.

Mostafa Ghonim  1:00:58  
Do you want, you want to take this first? Can you take...I'm actually really curious to see how you position is because I'm still a little, you know I'm still a little lost in the sauce. I'm like why Nate? You played for the Knicks bruh, like, you know you a hometown in a way.

Nicky Saunders  1:01:12  
First off, first off. Saying that you play for the Knicks is not really a an accomplishment anymore? 

Mostafa Ghonim  1:01:22  
I just... I just want to be a diehard. You know I'm trying to be a diehard. 

Nicky Saunders  1:01:24  
Listen I am. I am. But it's not an accomplishment anymore. Second, and he wore the Knicks colors. I should have known how that was going to happen. Right? So okay, so why I made this into a debatable thing, right is because what was Nate doing before this? Who was talking about Nate before this situation? Let's, let's try to take the knockout out. Let's try, right? The fact that he was on a card that sold millions of Pay Per Views, millions of Pay Per Views. His name was in the same category as Mike Tyson and Roy Jones, Jr, ...two legends. Nate, Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, Jr. Same card, same same place, same place, same card, all that great stuff. For that standpoint. I could say it was a win, right? Because I don't think on a regular smegular day we will be talking about Nate Robinson, from everybody knowing who Nate was. Now everybody is like, Who is he? Why did he do...? His following went up, clearly. Everybody on the internet made him a meme. Sometimes, regardless if it's good or bad, if they're talking about you, they're talking about you. And we weren't talking about Nate at all. So from that standpoint, it was a win on my end right? Now, what he does after, and we've had this conversation, what he does after will truly put a stamp if this was a win or not, right? Because if he goes and does a rematch, I think that's stupid. Like if he goes back into the boxing ring, and there was nothing of boxing that whatchamacallit that Nate did. I don't know if he trained. I don't know who he trained with. That was horrible. You could tell that he's like a major Street Fighter where Jake really does this boxing life. Right. So from that standpoint, I hope he makes the proper moves that will negate him getting knocked out because if we think about how if if we stay in the topic of boxing, and follow me people if you're not a boxing fan, the last time I saw somebody getting knocked out like that was Pacquiao. Pacquiao got knocked out. But though some would mention that they will not mention it as a super, like the number one thing they'll mention about Pacquiao. They'll mention about all his wins. They'll mention about the fight with Floyd, they'll mention about all these other things him being I don't know President or governor, politician in the Philippines, right. They'll mention all those good things because Pacquiao did a lot of good in stead of staying on that knocked out situation. So Nate has a lot of good before. Now he has to do a lot of good after for to stamp if this was a true win for Nate as a brand. Right? So that part from a future standpoint is still up in the air. But before the knockout, I think this was a really good look for his brand because it is it keeps him relevant. Now, would we do it? No. Not doing it. Now and it doesn't go from a standpoint of would you or would you not, values? that's a that's a different thing. Everybody has different values. But what is the goal of being in the ring? Was the goal to be relevant? Was the goal to make a bag? Was the goal to be in front of people that you wouldn't be in front of on an on a normal basis that could bring up different brand partnerships and opportunities? That's all the things you have to look into. And not only from an entertainment standpoint, is how I want to look at Nate Robinson for the end of 2020. But that's just me. Um, I would love to your take real quick.

Mostafa Ghonim  1:06:24  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, from one side of it, you know, and I don't know what his follow up was. So I don't know what he did afterward.

Nicky Saunders  1:06:32  
I don't know, either. I know, he did Complexland and talked about video games in the music industry. I don't know.

Mostafa Ghonim  1:06:41  
So he didn't really mention, tried kind of like sweeping it under the rug? 

Nicky Saunders  1:06:44  
I don't think they mentioned that. I'm not really sure.

Mostafa Ghonim  1:06:48  
Yeah, yeah. So So I would say, let me give the good first. Right. I like to be more of an optimistic side as well. Yeah. So So I think the first side that's that's really cool is that he went...he he attacked a personal goal. Right? He wanted to be one of the greatest athletes or one of the more versatile athletes that played basketball and did this and did that and also stepped into the ring to explore boxing. So from one side of it, I'm sure there were fears that were associated to that, discomfort, concern, worry, you know, a lot of things that from day to day hold people back from doing what they want to do. So result aside, meaning the outcome aside of what happened during the fight, the fact that he mustered up the courage to actually step in the ring, shout out to you for doing that, Nate. I think that's phenomenal. That's awesome. There's a lot of us that can benefit from that same, right, that same outlook. So again, I think that is that is amazing. The flip side of it, though, I think, now from a business and branding standpoint, if the messaging from a follow up standpoint, was not very specific, then and I know in the beginning, he was, you know, trying to make light of the situation and he was laughing, you know, about what happened as well, at least a little bit to kind of, you know, not get too roasted, because I know typically when people try and you know, try and hide at a real laughable situation, that's when it gets real bad. But there wasn't a follow up strategy in place. You know, you look at some of the Verzuz and why the Verzuz is so successful, well, you had multiple artists who started coming on, there dropping albums and mixtapes right after they finished. And they positioned it perfect. It's like, yo, we go Thursday. So that way, when we're finished by midnight, I have an album going, going live. I've listened to the Jeezy, I've been listening to all of Jeezy stuff, since since that Verzuz with Gucci Mane to be honest with you, because I'm like, yo, there was so much great music that I forgot he put out and then his new album has been great. So you talk about a follow up strategy, leveraging an opportunity for people who typically won't know about you or talk about you. There's something in place. Crazy enough, Jake Paul did it. Jake Paul came out we're like a diss, a diss verse right after you know? And like and again, not the most like, but this is something you always preach Nicky and shout out to you again for this one because you always say there are people out there who are not as talented as you who are beating you because they keep showing up. At the end of the day, although my man is not the most liked and there have been some controversial things that have happened in early in his YouTube  stage. He's still doing it right. Is he doing it again to the way that we like it? Not really. But you know what he came out with a diss...like he's doing it then his brother gets a chance to fight the big one of the greatest Floyd. Alright, so this is like yeah, I would have liked to see a follow up kind of strategy in place from from Nate that could help him to leverage that. Because if you know what you're right when you're not getting talked about, at the end of the day, good, good publicity is just as good as bad publicity, because you had no one saying your name anyway. So, yeah.

Nicky Saunders  1:10:18  
So look, this is what I need y'all to do. Tell me on our Twitter, right? Or Instagram, or Facebook, whatever your platform of preference, but we'll say Twitter because we could tweet you back. Right? What do you think is..it is for Nate? Is it a win or a loss in 2020? Right? From your standpoint. You heard our arguments. From your standpoint, what is that, a win or loss? I wanted to bring that up late. But aye, so talking about social media, go follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, follow us everywhere. Nicky and Moose. Shout out we just reached, depending on when you hear this, right, we just reached 1,000 subscribers on YouTube, 1,000 on IG, and almost 1,000 were like 900 and something something right on Facebook. And that's all because of y'all. We totally appreciate it. And on Facebook every Tuesday at 7:30 we go live because we want to talk to y'all, we want to do question and answer, we want to give you a little bit more about us, this you got to know a little bit more about us and our views on this one. So on Facebook, we do something similar but a little bit better. A little bit better. Ya mean? I'm just saying. Um, next episode, okay, we are going to do best of flight assessment. For those who have been living under a rock with the flight assessment, go to our past ones, right? Go check that out. Flightassessment.com if you haven't taken it right? And we're going to go best of as far as some of the interviews that we have talked about. And best of the pilot, best flight attendant, grounds crew and air traffic controller and we're gonna break it all the way down. So that should be really based off your favorite celebrity, actress, musician, all that great stuff. We're gonna go based off that. Moose, how do you feel about that?

Mostafa Ghonim  1:12:44  
Oh, you know, I love me some flight assessment. So I'm excited for that.

Nicky Saunders  1:12:47  
Hey, so now we're gonna get into the final words. Shout out to everybody who's listened to the end and new subscribers, new listeners and all that great stuff we love you. Moose, final words.

Mostafa Ghonim  1:13:03  
Yeah, I'm gonna kick it to LeBron man. I like LeBron's swagger and just his whole move through throughout the year. So I'm gonna encourage people to like he said, Don't pay attention to what the haters are saying. right because unfortunately Yeah, what they say screams louder. But continue to do good because they gone speak your name to right like from from a greatness standpoint, they have to speak about it because you can't be ignored when you're doing well. But don't forget to hold people accountable. So when they go around the block and they they go from the side eye to the "Hey, I always..." hold them accountable like hey, nah.